Hooded Man in winterfell part 3

[moe.]

Looks like the other topics were locked, I apologize if this thread exists and I am missing it.

I would like to get in on this discussion.

I think that it is likely that it is either Blackfish or Hyle Hunt (or whatever his name is that was with Brienne).

[Ser Elvin of Clymer]

I am in on a few of the other posts, some are still open.

I like the Hyle Hunt idea (or whatever his correct name is) didn't even think of it, and don't remember seeing it elsewhere.

I definitely feel Theon recognized HM (others posters don't, but I think him showing the stumpy fingers to HM suggests that) but Hyle Hunt he wouldn't recognize(nor Hyle Theon) and though we don't actually "hear" a voice, my picture was of an older and grizzled, dark, laughing at Theon's suffering/fate w/ Ramsay.

So that image doesn't remind me of Hyle (though he could change like Lancel does from the wounds & war)

I am a Robett Glover believer (or his brother, then Hal Mollen) helping w/ Manderley's plots.

[SerDuck]

I just saw an interesting fact on the ice and fire wiki about Brynden Rivers aka Bloodraven :

"Because his skin was sensitive to light, he usually went about cloaked and hooded."

I am aware this is obviously a trait about him while he was still "alive", but I thought it was interesting. He must have an interest in Winterfell if he has such an interest in Bran (heir to winterfell with Robb dead, although Robb's "will" might state otherwise) So maybe BR warged into someone to infiltrate Winterfell. And since he always went around hooded when he was alive, maybe its just a habit of his or some kind of clever foreshadowing on GRRM's part

The Hooded Man is so mysterious and we don't have many clues about him, but BR would know about Theon and much more... I thought it was interesting..

[FittleLinger]

I just saw an interesting fact on the ice and fire wiki about Brynden Rivers aka Bloodraven :

"Because his skin was sensitive to light, he usually went about cloaked and hooded."

I am aware this is obviously a trait about him while he was still "alive", but I thought it was interesting. He must have an interest in Winterfell if he has such an interest in Bran (heir to winterfell with Robb dead, although Robb's "will" might state otherwise) So maybe BR warged into someone to infiltrate Winterfell. And since he always went around hooded when he was alive, maybe its just a habit of his or some kind of clever foreshadowing on GRRM's part

The Hooded Man is so mysterious and we don't have many clues about him, but BR would know about Theon and much more... I thought it was interesting..

That's obvious - he's an albino. They are sensitive to sun and light. Also, if it was "him" in some weird inexplainable way - why would he be surprised - he is all-knowing. Unless that's not what you are suggesting, if so, I'm sorry.

No BR connection here IMO.

[Sword Of Mid Afternoon]

I just saw an interesting fact on the ice and fire wiki about Brynden Rivers aka Bloodraven :

"Because his skin was sensitive to light, he usually went about cloaked and hooded."

I am aware this is obviously a trait about him while he was still "alive", but I thought it was interesting. He must have an interest in Winterfell if he has such an interest in Bran (heir to winterfell with Robb dead, although Robb's "will" might state otherwise) So maybe BR warged into someone to infiltrate Winterfell. And since he always went around hooded when he was alive, maybe its just a habit of his or some kind of clever foreshadowing on GRRM's part

The Hooded Man is so mysterious and we don't have many clues about him, but BR would know about Theon and much more... I thought it was interesting..

Don't make me do it....

[alienarea]

Davos ... sigh

[Lord Manwoody]

I'm sticking with Robb's former squire...Olyvar Frey.

He knows Theon and what little was written of Frey suggests he maintains some loyalty to Robb, which means he wouldn't like Theon and would consider him a turncloak. And, there'd be nothing unusual about a Frey being in Winterfell.

[Three_eyed_Bro]

I'm sticking with Robb's former squire...Olyvar Frey.

He knows Theon and what little was written of Frey suggests he maintains some loyalty to Robb, which means he wouldn't like Theon and would consider him a turncloak. And, there'd be nothing unusual about a Frey being in Winterfell.

It would be refreshing to see a Frey that is not a complete Douche. Also, I like the Howland Reed possibility. It's about time we get some Tower of Joy info!

[MtnLion]

I do want to put this on the table, we know that the Hooded Man most likely is not a Stark supporter, elsewise Theon is as dead as Yellow Dick. We also get the impression that the next morning Roose recognizes Abel for who he really is, as he sets him to the task of quelling the bickering. It seems from the Pink Letter that Ramsay has captured Mance and identified him and his washerwomen. Who would know Abel's real identity? Who would want to come in the dark of night, and avoid being recognized? It seems to me that we are looking at a visit from Ser Alliser Thorne, to make arrangements with the Warden of the North to guarantee that the Night's Watch can get rid of Jon Snow.

[Buried Treasure]

I don't buy it being Alliser Thorne- he was sent ranging north of the Wall with two more experienced rangers that Jon trusted. How would he get back to Winterfell?

[Ser Elvin of Clymer]

I do want to put this on the table, we know that the Hooded Man most likely is not a Stark supporter, elsewise Theon is as dead as Yellow Dick.

I don't know, I absolutely took the passage to mean, that he was surprised Theon was still alive & leaving him for Ramsay was worse than killing him then.

Also, some Stark supporters know that Theon did not actually kill Bran & Rickon (Glover, Manderley) and may have other plans that hold more importance at that moment. They still hate him for betrayal and f-ing up Robb's flow, but wouldn't kill him if it risked endangering their objectives (secretly undermining the Boltons, revenge on the Freys, retake Winterfell etc.).

Those few passages of HM's words hold a lot of implications to his identity, depending on how you read them.

[The King of Worms]

Theory #1) Still think that the Hooded Man is actually Theon himself. He's the one who killed the Frey boys. He had a reason to hate them. They wouldn't fear him and they would let him get close. And the disfigurement of the bodies... He IS the Ghost in Winterfell.

The Hooded Man is Theon's self-hating split-personality. All the repressed rage and hatred got pushed into The Hooded Man, and Theon usually blacks out when the Hooded Man takes over.

#2) Its a black hood on a black cloak of the Night's Watch. Its Benjen Stark.

He was out ranging in Game of Thrones. He is pursued by Walkers and flees into these caves. According to Ygritte's story to Jon, one of the wildling kings Gorne back in the day used these miles and miles of caves to get under the Wall and into the Gift.

So Benjen gets lost in Gorne's caves, the caves where Jon and Ygritte were sexing it up back in aSoS, but he finds his way under the Wall and back to Winterfell. Survived and presumed dead, he is ragged, and doesn't know anything that's happened in the War. When he gets to Winterfell it is in ruins. But when the Bolton's people show up again, he hides in the crypts. He survives there in Winterfell's tunnels, spying, and learning about all that has happened. He's a great Ranger after all, he's great at sneaking around and biding his time. As the wedding approaches, his goal is to sneak Arya out, but he knows it is a fake Arya. So he starts taking people out to create fear and suspicion among the Stark enemies... biding his time, just like all the killing he did quietly in wildling lands.

When he sees Theon he decides to spare him out of punishment, so he doesn't get a quick clean death...and keeps suffering as Ramsay's wretch.

Don't know if Benjen could have survived that many months in the Wild and in the Caves, but he is a Ranger considered the best by the Watch and the wildlings. He also may have been helped by Coldhands who helped him get to the Black Door too.

Anyway, it would be awesome if Benjen was the Hooded Man. He would be the best Stark in Winterfell... the one who gave up his honor and NW vows to revenge for the family.

[Black Wolf Smith]

No it isn't Benjen, if he is alive he gotten different fish to fry, and he have to be killed for going south without permission.

Same with Thorne.

Olyfer Frey is too young.

Theon Durgen? really please don't go there.

I use to think BF but someone point out things to me and I don't think he ever left RR.

My own personal crack-pot theory goes like this...

Theon says that the swords in WF there are to guard the dead Starks and that it is very bad they aren't there.

Hodor removed a sword from an unknown Stark.

Therefore the Ghost of WF is a long dead Stark back from the dead.

[redriver]

Torren Liddle for me.He was mysterious and knew the importance of the Starks and what was happening in Winterfell,when he met Bran.

He also mentioned the ghosts in Winterfell,the title of the chapter.

Plus he hasn't appeared at places he should be,such as the Karstark wedding or in Stannis' host.

[Jon Reborn]

I do want to put this on the table, we know that the Hooded Man most likely is not a Stark supporter, elsewise Theon is as dead as Yellow Dick. We also get the impression that the next morning Roose recognizes Abel for who he really is, as he sets him to the task of quelling the bickering. It seems from the Pink Letter that Ramsay has captured Mance and identified him and his washerwomen. Who would know Abel's real identity? Who would want to come in the dark of night, and avoid being recognized? It seems to me that we are looking at a visit from Ser Alliser Thorne, to make arrangements with the Warden of the North to guarantee that the Night's Watch can get rid of Jon Snow.

Aha! This is it. How Thorne fits in to the whole thing! Beautifully done.

Also means he was in on the assassination, if not one of the main drivers.

This would answer who the hooded man in Winterfell was. It may also shed light on the Pink Letter. Ramsey and Thorne together could have wrote it. And we all know how much they both love to call Jon bastard.

ETA

Thorne could have killed the rangers he was with in their sleep or whatever to get away.

[TheeMikeHoncho]

Theory #1) Anyway, it would be awesome if Benjen was the Hooded Man. He would be the best Stark in Winterfell... the one who gave up his honor and NW vows to revenge for the family.

If Benjen was alive, would he abandon Jon, his blood relative and lord commander of his order?

I am in the Davos camp. Enough time has passed for Davos to reach Rickon and return to Winterfell/Manderly. Rickon and Asha both know the crypt exit so they could inform of it. I also thought that the HM wanting to see Theon's severed fingers was telling too.

[Harland Flint]

I honestly think that it's a no name soldier of Bolton, Manderley or Frey's.

[scurvy]

Only one person besides the Hooded Man called Theon a kinslayer. It was Crowfood Umber in the teaser chapter. He was inside Winterfell meeting with his brother Whoresbane's forces to figure out how to take out Roose.

[Prince of the North]

Theory #1) Still think that the Hooded Man is actually Theon himself. He's the one who killed the Frey boys. He had a reason to hate them. They wouldn't fear him and they would let him get close. And the disfigurement of the bodies... He IS the Ghost in Winterfell.

The Hooded Man is Theon's self-hating split-personality. All the repressed rage and hatred got pushed into The Hooded Man, and Theon usually blacks out when the Hooded Man takes over.

Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner! :thumbsup:

I think you're right to say that the HM is Theon's self-hating split personality but I would add, in an attempt to be more precise, that the HM is Theon. And Theon hates what he has become - Reek. The old Theon had to come back to the fore in order to defy Ramsey - Reek could never have done that ;)

[Jon Reborn]

If Benjen was alive, would he abandon Jon, his blood relative and lord commander of his order?

I am in the Davos camp. Enough time has passed for Davos to reach Rickon and return to Winterfell/Manderly. Rickon and Asha both know the crypt exit so they could inform of it. I also thought that the HM wanting to see Theon's severed fingers was telling too.

I don't think the hooded man wanted to see Theon's fingers. Theon just showed them hoping he wouldn't get shanked by the hooded man, or something along those lines.

No love for Thorne as the hooded man? I thought MtnLion got it. Thorne knows exactly how to get under Jon's skin. This is seen when he provokes Jon to the degree that Jon attacks him in the mess hall.

He even warns Jon that he'll be back when Jon sends him on the ranging. I believe Mel told Jon that all the rangers sent out would die. Thorne is not a ranger, but likely killed the two he was with, then snuck back and got south of the Wall. Thorne and Marsh have cronies at the Wall - one of which could have easily let him back through at some point.

I believe Clydas was a plotter with Thorne and Marsh.

So:

Thorne leaves on the ranging, kills the two with him while they sleep.

He heads back to the Wall and one of his cronies lets him through.

Nobody expects any of the rangers to return so Thorne has lots of time on his hands.

He could have even been hanging around, getting reports from Marsh and the other conspirators about the latest stuff that Jon ("the bastard") has been doing to "ruin" the Watch.

Thorne and Marsh have likely been in communication with the new Lannister backed Warden of the North (via Clydas and the ravens) an know the Lannisters/Boltons don't like Jon as Lord Commander. The time seems ripe, with Jon letting the wildlings through the wall.

Thorne heads down to Winterfell to discuss plans in person with Roose and/or Ramsey for removing Ned Stark's "last remaining son".

Thorne knows who is at the wall (Selyse, Shireen, Val, Mel), knows about Stannis' sword, would recognize Mance, and loves to call Jon bastard and get under his skin.

Thorne and Ramsey collaborate on the Pink Letter. A really perfectly designed document to get under Jon's skin.

Maybe they send 2 letters via raven. One with instructions for Marsh et al. to be ready, the other being the Pink Letter.

Jon falls for the bait (hook line and sinker), Marsh et al. strike.

Maybe a few holes, but I think it works. Thoughts?