49 replies to this topic

[yolkboy]

larrytheimp, on 07 August 2012 - 07:05 PM, said:

mance rAyDer
mercencary

where's the D? or the second A?

For the 3rd time, its a DERIVATIVE anagram as i said in the OP. Imagine playing scrabble. You could get Mercenary from Mance rayder.

Mercenary is the longest word you can get in this scenario.

PS Lightbringer = Brighten Girl... dunno if anyone's read the 'Hero' AA prophesy

Edited by yolkboy, 07 August 2012 - 07:54 PM.

[yolkboy]

Naathi Prince, on 07 August 2012 - 07:47 PM, said:

Mance and the free folk seem to have a lot of respect for the Starks, I doubt this is the case. Sure, GRRM likes to spin us around, but this seems more crackpot than anything else.

The Starks are (were) the biggest champions of the NW,  among Mances main enemies. Ned would have beheaded Mance for being a turncloak. So dont be too sure he likes the Starks. I'm sure there were other hints he didnt like them but my brain is mush, sorry.

[Naathi Prince]

yolkboy, on 07 August 2012 - 07:54 PM, said:

The Starks are (were) the biggest champions of the NW,  among Mances main enemies. Ned would have beheaded Mance for being a turncloak. So dont be too sure he likes the Starks. I'm sure there were other hints he didnt like them but my brain is mush, sorry.

“You ought to thank me for killing your enemy,” Jon said finally, “and curse me for killing your friend.”

The NW is no longer Mance's enemy. Mance didn't just become the King beyond the Wall for fun, he did it for a reason, the Others. The Starks, the Night's Watch, they aren't the real enemy, they are just in the way. besides, what does killing a small child accomplish? Nothing! He's not the heir, he's the second son. Kill Ned or Catelyn or Robb, that'd make sense. But Bran? Literally no motive there (unless he secretly knows that Bran is a Greenseer through secret magic). Mance already has had quite a few surprises for us.

[Lion of Judah]

yolkboy, on 07 August 2012 - 06:35 PM, said:

Nothing will be clear until the end. George wants to flip us again and again and again. Bluffs and double bluffs.
LF was my bet before i started thinking about Mance though. Just TOO WEIRD showing up in Winterfell just to see Robert. Thats how my thought process started. LF seems a little too obvious now, as does Joff.

It's amazing how George has us all plotting with our unique interpretations!

We don't know the in depth history between Mance and the Starks, but Mance is preoccupied with getting the free folk past the wall. Mance knows that Eddard was a man of the north with the blood of the first men in him. It would not of been hard for him to align himself with Ned against the common enemy.

Also what would he have to gain from killing Ned's second son that he would not gain by killing the first? If your theory is true then why Bran and not Robb?

I think Mance was there to snuff out an advantage, but he knows winter is coming. It makes no sense for him to risk war with the north at such a time. Especially considering an alliance would have been easier.

[larrytheimp]

yolkboy, on 07 August 2012 - 07:49 PM, said:

For the 3rd time, its a DERIVATIVE anagram as i said in the OP. Imagine playing scrabble. You could get Mercenary from Mance rayder.

Mercenary is the longest word you can get in this scenario.

PS Lightbringer = Brighten Girl... dunno if anyone's read the 'Hero' AA prophesy

Okay... I thought you said something about no unused letters, which led me to believe we had to use all of them.

Just seems like a stretch to me.... I mean, are there any other characters that have a meaningful annagram in the series?

and it just seems like, given Mance's character, he doesn't answer to anyone... like the story about his cloak.

Edited by larrytheimp, 07 August 2012 - 10:18 PM.

[yolkboy]

Black Lord, on 07 August 2012 - 09:54 PM, said:

Also what would he have to gain from killing Ned's second son that he would not gain by killing the first? If your theory is true then why Bran and not Robb?

I'm suggesting that the attack on Bran was perhaps NEVER MEANT to succeed, but just spark a war of the North vs Lannisters - which the catspaw did when you think about it. Robb was not a target because he'd be harder to get close to (maybe take the catspaw alive), he is also needed to lead the war. I suggest certain characters have premonitions that can tell them the future - all they need to do is slide the pawns in place like a game of chess, and the visions can come true.

[Sevumar]

I think that if Mance had access to a Valyrian steel dagger, the last thing he would do with it is hand it to a stranger to kill a boy he barely knows. No, in a society where metal weapons of any kind are rare and prized, a weapon of Valyrian steel (even a dagger) would be a great status symbol and an extremely valuable possession. The kind of weapon a very capable king might be expected to have among the Free Folk.

[DragonSpawn]

Just playing devils advocate...

If Mance can get hold of silk from Asshai... a dagger like that might not be so unbelievable for a Wildling to come by.

Also Mance - while having respect for the Starks... would expect to fight them if he had succeeded in storming the Wall...

A diversion would be the best tactical strategy for him... a southerner dagger.... and killing a lesser member of House Stark may be all that's needed to focus Winterfell's attentions south (doesn't matter if the assassin attempt succeeds or not, as long as he declares he was hired by a 'southern lord' if caught, and leaves the knife if he succeeds). Given the taboo around Kinslaying - getting some crappy assassin to give it a go might be advisable...  

Mance then rushes back to the Frost-Fangs ... as word reaches the Wall of Ned's death and Robbs march south... then the Wildlings start their march south - which admittedly co-incides perfectly with the weakening of Winterfell. So strategically it has a huge benefit for Mance and the Wildlings and therefore they have good motive... but they didn't count on Jon turning cloak again and holding the Wall.

On the other hand - it would mean LF never owned or saw the knife until Cat showed it to him...and Tyrion seems to believe LF is behind it, after sending LF off on a mission he thinks "and the dagger, another conversation we must have" (or words to that effect) ... but then it never happens...

In the end - the value of a Valyrian steel dagger is nothing compared to the amount of lives that would be lost fighting a well defended Winterfell. But we also have to bear in mind there is too much info missing... Mance, after seeing what happened with Bran, may have legged it back North having seen the opportunity to attack.. and may have not been behind it at all... and his main way of by-passing Winterfell may have been to take a hostage - which might have been his original plan but once he had seen the Direwolves - he knew it was not possible... until Jon landed in his lap...

[Azad_Injejikian]

I thought I was the only crazy one to think up this theory. I dont feel so alone in my insanity. Thank you westeros.org.

[addicted to snow]

I like the theory too...

Just to add something that I noticed as well: The night that Lewin, Ned & Cat were discussin JA's death, The lannisters, Ned's future, plans, betrothals, etc.; The author twice noted that the bedroom windows were open. Cat urged Ned to close them before they started discussing such sensitive topics, and Ned nodded absently - but did not close the windows... I think that this is a hint that someone was listening to they conversation. Mance?