63 replies to this topic

[Born amidst salt and smoke]

What was the extent of Loras's injuries in A Feast For Crows ? It says he barely clings to life, but have his looks or abilities or both been heavily damaged ?

[Garlan Marius]

We actually haven't seen him yet, and I'm in the camp that thinks the Tyrells lied to Cersei.

[MarcherLord]

He was scalded with oil and took various other wounds (crossbow bolts) if I remember correctly. If he survives the wounds, I imagine his looks will be damaged.

Edited by MarcherLord, 07 August 2012 - 12:33 PM.

[andrewside]

If something happens off screen or out of sight, most of the time in this series those events should be doubted until given proof.
See Davos's supposed death by Wyman Manderly.
Also, Loras is said to be mortally wounded on Dragonstone.

[mcb]

He's reported to be severely wounded and burned, and unlikely to survive. Basically, in only marginally better shape than Davos after meeting with Lord Manderly.

Edited by mcb, 07 August 2012 - 12:41 PM.

[Ser Latecomer]

MarcherLord, on 07 August 2012 - 12:33 PM, said:

He was scalded with oil and took various other wounds (crossbow bolts) if I remember correctly. If he survives the wounds, I imagine his looks will be damaged.

Allegedly.  I am in the camp that this was not true, I think it was Aurane Waters that delivered the news to Cersei and we see how loyal he ended up being.

Also, in ADwD as Cersei is being brought to the High Septon to finally confess her fornications, the Septas begin giving her some news of the outside including about Margaery and her impending trial.  As one septa is about to mention Margaery's brother, she is silenced and told she talks too much.  Of course, Cersei thinks that the part left unsaid is that he barely clings to life, but I think the septa was about to reveal that he had returned and announced he would be defending his sister.

[MarcherLord]

Ser Latecomer, on 07 August 2012 - 12:44 PM, said:

Also, in ADwD as Cersei is being brought to the High Septon to finally confess her fornications, the Septas begin giving her some news of the outside including about Margaery and her impending trial.  As one septa is about to mention Margaery's brother, she is silenced and told she talks too much.  Of course, Cersei thinks that the part left unsaid is that he barely clings to life, but I think the septa was about to reveal that he had returned and announced he would be defending his sister.

Good point - I had forgotten that part.

[Born amidst salt and smoke]

Which begs the question, why lie ? To provoke a reaction from Cersei indicating her true intentions ? Or perhaps the Tyrells mean to take Dragonstone for themselves and keep it warm for a certain Targ to return ...

[The Hedge Knight]

Well he was scalded with oil, he would look something like the one guy from The Dark Knight.

[img]http://i.imgur.com/3.../3WbSu.jpg[/img]

Edited by The Hedge Knight, 07 August 2012 - 06:08 PM.

[Sweet-N-SourRobin]

The official report -- Dragonstone has Fallen, Loras led the charge and was greviously/mortally wounded doing so -- came from Aurane Waters, no longer considered a reliable or even objective source.  It also seems too much like what Cersei would want to hear.

Kevan, for his part, expressed serious doubt (internally) about the official story in ADWD's epilogue.  He doesn't seem to think the siege even happened, let alone ended the way Aurane said it did.  Which would mean Loras is fit as a fiddle, the Tyrell army is actually directly on its way back home to expel the Ironborn (like they wanted to do but Cersei ordered them to take Dragonstone first), and Aurane Waters might have defected to their side instead of just disappearing, meaning they will be using the royal navy to do it.

[mcb]

Ser Latecomer, on 07 August 2012 - 12:44 PM, said:

Also, in ADwD as Cersei is being brought to the High Septon to finally confess her fornications, the Septas begin giving her some news of the outside including about Margaery and her impending trial.  As one septa is about to mention Margaery's brother, she is silenced and told she talks too much.  Of course, Cersei thinks that the part left unsaid is that he barely clings to life, but I think the septa was about to reveal that he had returned and announced he would be defending his sister.

A few holes, if you forgive me. One, Loras wouldn't be defending Margaery, since she chose a trial by judges instead of combat. Two, if Loras indeed was in King's Landing, then the information would be distributed strictly under the "need to know" rule, and I doubt that Scolera needed to know. It most certainly wasn't common knowledge.
Although, that "but her brother..." line is intriguing.

[carmela28]

Sweet-N-SourRobin, on 07 August 2012 - 12:56 PM, said:

Kevan, for his part, expressed serious doubt (internally) about the official story in ADWD's epilogue.  He doesn't seem to think the siege even happened, let alone ended the way Aurane said it did.  Which would mean Loras is fit as a fiddle, the Tyrell army is actually directly on its way back home to expel the Ironborn (like they wanted to do but Cersei ordered them to take Dragonstone first), and Aurane Waters might have defected to their side instead of just disappearing, meaning they will be using the royal navy to do it.

Aurane's whereabouts seem to be the key part of this little mystery. I may not be remembering this correctly but wasn't Loras a bit too eager to go to Dragonstone?

[mcb]

Born amidst salt and smoke, on 07 August 2012 - 12:55 PM, said:

Which begs the question, why lie ? To provoke a reaction from Cersei indicating her true intentions ? Or perhaps the Tyrells mean to take Dragonstone for themselves and keep it warm for a certain Targ to return ...

But when Loras (allegedly) took Dragonstone, the Tyrells didn't know about Faegon, and no one in Faegon's camp was aware that they were secretly allied with the Tyrells.

[Ser Latecomer]

mcb, on 07 August 2012 - 12:59 PM, said:

A few holes, if you forgive me. One, Loras wouldn't be defending Margaery, since she chose a trial by judges instead of combat. Two, if Loras indeed was in King's Landing, then the information would be distributed strictly under the "need to know" rule, and I doubt that Scolera needed to know. It most certainly wasn't common knowledge.
Although, that "but her brother..." line is intriguing.

Good points.  I am only on my second re-read of ADwD and literally just finished Cersei's chapter last night, but I'll keep my eyes open for the remainder of the book to see if I can pick up any more clues regarding Aurane's and Loras's whereabouts.

[Born amidst salt and smoke]

They might not know about Faegon, but there is more of a chance they know about Dany, I'll need to re-read and also look at Varys's input, both in council meetings and out

[mcb]

carmela28, on 07 August 2012 - 01:01 PM, said:

Aurane's whereabouts seem to be the key part of this little mystery. I may not be remembering this correctly but wasn't Loras a bit too eager to go to Dragonstone?

He most certainly was. As if the roses had seen a trap and wanted to provoke Cersei to expose it. Which would mean that Lady Olenna wasn't the only member of the family with brains.
BTW whose agent Taena is? Tyrells'? Tyrells' and Martells'? Varys'? Littlefinger's? Eh. It's pointless, no chance that I'll get it right.

[Jolene Brown]

Kevan expressed doubt that Loras had thoroughly searched Dragonstone because it is so vast, not doubt about whether he had taken it or been injured.  However, it is true that Aurane Waters is hardly trustworthy.

Couldn't Margaery switch to trial by combat if Loras turned up?  Tyrion switched at the last minute... although that hardly turned out well for him.

[The Hedge Knight]

Jolene Brown, on 07 August 2012 - 02:25 PM, said:

Kevan expressed doubt that Loras had thoroughly searched Dragonstone because it is so vast, not doubt about whether he had taken it or been injured.  However, it is true that Aurane Waters is hardly trustworthy.

Couldn't Margaery switch to trial by combat if Loras turned up?  Tyrion switched at the last minute... although that hardly turned out well for him.

That was not a trial by the faith.

[Jem]

I believe that Loras has taken the Redwyne fleet to defend the Reach against the Ironborn attack. The Tyrells ask Cersei if Loras can do this and Cersei says no. Shortly thereafter Loras very kindly offers to take Dragonstone for Cersei. His supposed injuries are obviously a delay tactic, giving Loras a valid reason not to return to KL.n

[mcb]

Jolene Brown, on 07 August 2012 - 02:25 PM, said:

Couldn't Margaery switch to trial by combat if Loras turned up?  Tyrion switched at the last minute... although that hardly turned out well for him.

I believe she could, although there's little reason to. The case against her was weak to begin with, and now Varys has offed chief witness for the prosecution. What's left, the Blue Bard? They have nothing on her.
Which probably means she'll be found guilty and sentenced to death.