91 replies to this topic

[Gaston de Foix]

So I just finished reading King of Thorns and thought we should have a thread to discuss it, spoilers and all. I've forgotten how to put things in spoiler boxes, so someone please remind me how to do so. I had a whole bunch of questions I want to ask but should really put in spoiler boxes.

[Twelve Angry Nonmen]

use word spoiler and /spoiler in brackets

Spoiler

thought it was really enjoyable, but I wish I knew more subnational European geography, so I could figure out what all the town and country names are the corrupted versions of; also, how did Jorg know the Fexler or whatever had shot himself? did he just spot him on a random camera while using the eye-piece?  And why does Fexler have such a weird name? If Jorg was able to find his body in Western Europe somewhere, shouldn't he have a, uh, European name, not some weird American-ish one?  What was an American scientist doin' over in Europe with a gun? How'd he get it past airline security?

I mean, he could be English, but the man had a Colt.

Edited by (╯°□°）╯︵ ǝlqɹnſ, 10 August 2012 - 03:34 AM.

[Filippa Eilhart]

You don't have to use spoiler boxes if you have "spoilers" in the thread title.

[Gaston de Foix]

Filippa Eilhart, on 10 August 2012 - 03:53 AM, said:

You don't have to use spoiler boxes if you have "spoilers" in the thread title.

alright. So I really liked some aspects of the book and disliked others. I loved the geography, plotting, pace etc. The world building is truly excellent. You see hints in other writers (see Jordan, R, Wheel of TIme) of their dystopian world as our future but Lawrence has done it the best I've come across.


But I totally couldn't figure out why/whether Katherine burned to death and/or why she was in the Prince of Arrow's camp anyway when Orrin was assassinated by his brother.

I was also interested in the mathmagician's prediction

"Three Steps Outside"

"Three in the Carriage"

"Three Women that will love you"

"Three brothers lost on your journey"

Any idea what that means?

[Twelve Angry Nonmen]

Gaston de Foix, on 10 August 2012 - 05:43 AM, said:

But I totally couldn't figure out why/whether Katherine burned to death and/or why she was in the Prince of Arrow's camp anyway when Orrin was assassinated by his brother.

Jorg unleashed Brother Gog, and it burnt away the Prince's army.  Orrin was only recently assassinated, I think.  Katherine hasn't had time to leave yet? Or she's being kept prisoner by the brother.

Gaston de Foix, on 10 August 2012 - 05:43 AM, said:

I was also interested in the mathmagician's prediction

"Three Steps Outside"

"Three in the Carriage"

"Three Women that will love you"

"Three brothers lost on your journey"

Any idea what that means?

1. No idea
2. No idea, unless it's referencing the past
3. His mother, Katherine, and Miana?
4. William, the one he accidentally kills, and the Prince (can't remember his name at all, though I read it just yesterday).

Edited by (╯°□°）╯︵ ǝlqɹnſ, 10 August 2012 - 05:48 AM.

[peterbound]

Filippa Eilhart, on 10 August 2012 - 03:53 AM, said:

You don't have to use spoiler boxes if you have "spoilers" in the thread title.

Oh, if only life was that easy.  I've seen thread wars start over this concept.  Don't you remember the days of the Walking Dead threads?

[Give Cersei some LOVE]

I just love the amount of fuck yous in the first book. Haven't got my copy of this one yet.

[Lylor]

Katherine knew of Sagecious's evildoings, and probably went to him to try to stop it. He'd probably be near the army to control the new Prince of Arrow, so going to the army made sense. In the vision Jorg sees her lips moving, so I think she was helping Jorg by distracting/weakening him with her newly acquired magic. Afterwards, Jorg gave into Gog and fried the entire army, and she was collateral damage.

Quote

I felt him try to weave my vision, try to walk away in dream. And then I saw her. A ghost of her. Katherine white with anger and the more beautiful with it. A ghost of her at his shoulder, waiting in the place he sought to run to, like a mirage on hot sand, her lips moving without sound, chanting something. I could see her sitting on horseback, with the same knights around her that she brought with her from Arrow’s palace. Somewhere back in the mass of that army Katherine rode her horse blind, her eyes bound by visions as she cast spells of her own.

Lawrence, Mark (2012-08-07). King of Thorns (Kindle Locations 6001-6005). Penguin Group. Kindle Edition.

As for the gun, it was preserved in the stasis chamber where he committed suicide by gun. How Jorg managed to find it I haven't a clue.

Edited by Lylor, 10 August 2012 - 09:51 AM.

[Migey]

This book is out yet? Amazon claims it hasn't yet been released but is avaliable for pre-order. What?

[AUyushu]

Gaston de Foix, on 10 August 2012 - 05:43 AM, said:

alright. So I really liked some aspects of the book and disliked others. I loved the geography, plotting, pace etc. The world building is truly excellent. You see hints in other writers (see Jordan, R, Wheel of TIme) of their dystopian world as our future but Lawrence has done it the best I've come across.


But I totally couldn't figure out why/whether Katherine burned to death and/or why she was in the Prince of Arrow's camp anyway when Orrin was assassinated by his brother.

I was also interested in the mathmagician's prediction

"Three Steps Outside"

"Three in the Carriage"

"Three Women that will love you"

"Three brothers lost on your journey"

Any idea what that means?

(╯°□°）╯︵ ǝlqɹnſ, on 10 August 2012 - 05:48 AM, said:

Jorg unleashed Brother Gog, and it burnt away the Prince's army.  Orrin was only recently assassinated, I think.  Katherine hasn't had time to leave yet? Or she's being kept prisoner by the brother.



1. No idea
2. No idea, unless it's referencing the past
3. His mother, Katherine, and Miana?
4. William, the one he accidentally kills, and the Prince (can't remember his name at all, though I read it just yesterday).

I have no idea on the first or third myself, but I'm pretty sure "three in the carriage" probably refers to Jorg, his brother, and his Mom traveling in the carriage as they got attacked and he got thrown in the thorns. I think the three brothers lost is actually refering to the three brothers (from his original band) that died on the journey (unless I'm forgetting one).

At any rate, I loved the hell out of both these books. It's like someone mixed Abercrombie with the world of Thundarr the Barbarian. I know Mark posts on here from time to time, does anyone know how many books he's planning on having in this series? Just a single trilogy? Or more?

Edited by AUyushu, 17 August 2012 - 06:11 PM.

[Sci-2]

Migey, on 15 August 2012 - 03:59 AM, said:

This book is out yet? Amazon claims it hasn't yet been released but is avaliable for pre-order. What?

I saw stacks at B&N the other day, so it's definitely out in the US. I plan on picking this up, I had some issues with the first book but overall the quality quick read is hard to come by in SFF and I have a feeling Lawrence improves given his strong debut.

[Mark Lawrence]

AUyushu, on 17 August 2012 - 06:00 PM, said:

At any rate, I loved the hell out of both these books. It's like someone mixed Abercrombie with the world of Thundarr the Barbarian. I know Mark posts on here from time to time, does anyone know how many books he's planning on having in this series? Just a single trilogy? Or more?

I actually spent some hours on a train with a ARC of Red Country recently but I didn't open it because I prefer to be able to say I've never read any of Abercrombie's work - that fact is a comfort from time to time. I'll save his no doubt Stirling efforts for when I retire

The 'Thorns books are a trilogy, yes, with no plans to revisit the characters. I hope most readers' memories of the work will be how much the loved the final book rather than on which of the umpteen books the series lost its magic for them and they bailed.

[Mexal]

I found this book to be much stronger than the first one. I enjoyed it thoroughly though I was pretty confused about the Prince/Katherine bit at the end. How did Jorg know Egan killed him? When did it happen? How did no one else really know about it? Just seemed to come out of left field.

I'd be somewhat surprised if that's the last we hear of Katherine as she died in a more or less non sensical manner. His obsession with her encompasses the entire book then she dies in the inferno that he creates from Jorg? Seems anti-climatic. I figured there would be more there and more to her learning/understanding of magic. We'll see if he managed to escape somehow like Sageous did.

[Twelve Angry Nonmen]

Mexal, on 24 August 2012 - 02:56 PM, said:

How did Jorg know Egan killed him? When did it happen? How did no one else really know about it?

Where does it say no one knows he killed his brother?  I assumed he knifed him months ago, and it's common knowledge.

[Garlan the Gallant]

(╯°□°）╯︵ ǝlqɹnſ, on 24 August 2012 - 08:41 PM, said:

Where does it say no one knows he killed his brother?  I assumed he knifed him months ago, and it's common knowledge.

Yea, I assumed the same thing. Its just that the reader never knew. It was written that way to build suspense for the reader. If you look back, in the present, he never refers to the Prince of Arrows as Orrin or Egen. It's kind of like Fight Club (Brad Pitt's character never interacts with anyone else other than Edward Norton...he doesn't even open doors in scenes.

Just to confirm though, Katherine was killed in the fire, correct?

Also, when the computer clone spoke of the two opposing forces pulling at Jorg were they the Death King and Ferrokind? Because it referred to one being a force of good and I don't think either one of those is a force of good.

Lastly, I was quite confused during the scene Jorg got the magic box. Lunatar gave it to him? Who the heck is Lunatar? Was he someone from the first book? Sorry for my lapse in memory.

Mark Lawrence, on 21 August 2012 - 06:08 AM, said:

I actually spent some hours on a train with a ARC of Red Country recently but I didn't open it because I prefer to be able to say I've never read any of Abercrombie's work - that fact is a comfort from time to time. I'll save his no doubt Stirling efforts for when I retire

The 'Thorns books are a trilogy, yes, with no plans to revisit the characters. I hope most readers' memories of the work will be how much the loved the final book rather than on which of the umpteen books the series lost its magic for them and they bailed.

Out of curiosity, Mr. Lawrence, do you plans for a novel or series after your current one?

Edited by Garlan the Gallant, 25 August 2012 - 12:23 AM.

[AUyushu]

Mark Lawrence, on 21 August 2012 - 06:08 AM, said:

I actually spent some hours on a train with a ARC of Red Country recently but I didn't open it because I prefer to be able to say I've never read any of Abercrombie's work - that fact is a comfort from time to time. I'll save his no doubt Stirling efforts for when I retire

The 'Thorns books are a trilogy, yes, with no plans to revisit the characters. I hope most readers' memories of the work will be how much the loved the final book rather than on which of the umpteen books the series lost its magic for them and they bailed.

Thanks for the info Mark. I really don't think you are close enough in style to Abercrombie to have to go to that extreme, but I can see how the comparisons could be annoying when you are coming up with your own original stuff. It's mainly the brutal world and the amoral qualities of the characters that is similar in any case, not the story or the world itself.

The only being a trilogy thing is kinda a good and bad thing I guess. Good to know you won't have a spiraling out of control series, but no more of a good thing is bad too. But a nice tightly done trilogy is pretty much the best type of book series there is. I'll look forward to reading the conclusion then in a year or so whenever you get done and published.

[AUyushu]

Garlan the Gallant, on 25 August 2012 - 12:15 AM, said:

Lastly, I was quite confused during the scene Jorg got the magic box. Lunatar gave it to him? Who the heck is Lunatar? Was he someone from the first book? Sorry for my lapse in memory.

In one of the flashback scenes with Katherine, she is the one who tells the brothers about Lunatar, when Jorg comes back completely mad after he is tricked into killing the young prince. They go to him to fix the madness.

[Gaston de Foix]

Mark Lawrence, on 21 August 2012 - 06:08 AM, said:

I actually spent some hours on a train with a ARC of Red Country recently but I didn't open it because I prefer to be able to say I've never read any of Abercrombie's work - that fact is a comfort from time to time. I'll save his no doubt Stirling efforts for when I retire

The 'Thorns books are a trilogy, yes, with no plans to revisit the characters. I hope most readers' memories of the work will be how much the loved the final book rather than on which of the umpteen books the series lost its magic for them and they bailed.

Thanks for the info. As it happens, I've just done an Abercrombie re read and I think you have very different styles with a distinct originality. Also, it is a crying shame that an ARC of A Red Country is going yo waste like that...

So is it wrong to assume the title of the third book will be Emperor of Thorns?

If you aren't going to have any novels after this trilogy for this story line will you set stories in this world?

For me one of the most intriguing things about the book was the deep history, I would love to read about the fall of the last Emperor and the coming to power of the Steward.

[Mark Lawrence]

Gaston de Foix, on 25 August 2012 - 03:26 AM, said:

Thanks for the info. As it happens, I've just done an Abercrombie re read and I think you have very different styles with a distinct originality. Also, it is a crying shame that an ARC of A Red Country is going yo waste like that...

So is it wrong to assume the title of the third book will be Emperor of Thorns?

If you aren't going to have any novels after this trilogy for this story line will you set stories in this world?

For me one of the most intriguing things about the book was the deep history, I would love to read about the fall of the last Emperor and the coming to power of the Steward.

It wasn't my Red Country ARC, so fear not, it was read and there's even a resultant review: http://fantasy-facti...-country-review

The third book will be Emperor - I had it in mind to call it Empire of Thorns but the wheels of publishing had rolled on without me.

I may well revisit the 'Thorns universe' as every time I write a non-Thorns book I'm told 'We'll put this out under a pseudonym so as not to confuse the readers'!

[YellowDogJen]

I just finished, minutes ago...FABULOUS! Wow. What a great read.

Mark, I was on the edge of my seat.

I was confused at times, but I think you tied it all up very well at the end. I also hope Katherine's not dead!

I can't wait for the next (last) book, although I haz a sad that it'll be the last one. It's funny; I really didn't care that much for Prince of Thorns the first time I read it. On re-read, I loved it. And King of Thorns? Man, I was engrossed from the first word to the last.

Thanks so much!