114 replies to this topic

[Mulled Wino]

It appears that Stannis assumed the crown's debts created by his brother.  We can assume that they are still going to try and collect from the current regime no?

Im personally surprised that the IB hasnt gone to more drastic measures to try and collect their debts yet.   Funding a competitor is a start, but can we really assume they no nothing of Dany or Aegon?  Why havent they tried to fund Dany?  She's desparate for dough, im sure she'd take any interest rate at this point.  Maybe thats how she gets out of Mereen.

[Saci Targaryen]

The problem is the subprime bubble on the Westeroos castle market. Too many lords died without paying their mortage, and now the I.B is in deep trouble, but I guess its safe to expect Stannis will bail them out.

[yolkboy]

Mulled Wino, on 10 August 2012 - 07:18 AM, said:

It appears that Stannis assumed the crown's debts created by his brother.  We can assume that they are still going to try and collect from the current regime no?

Im personally surprised that the IB hasnt gone to more drastic measures to try and collect their debts yet.   Funding a competitor is a start, but can we really assume they no nothing of Dany or Aegon?  Why havent they tried to fund Dany?  She's desparate for dough, im sure she'd take any interest rate at this point.  Maybe thats how she gets out of Mereen.

No i think Stannis is responsible for the crowns debts as part of the deal. They obviously think its better for them (in terms of regaining their outgoings) to back stannis in his war effort and get the cash off him. The best way to avoid the great Westeros credit crunch.

It's crossred my mind that the Iron Bank like to perpetuate WAR for various reasons, including financial. Just as Varys seeks chaos, so might the Iron Bank. Peace is cheap.

Edited by yolkboy, 10 August 2012 - 07:24 AM.

[Mulled Wino]

Saci Targaryen, on 10 August 2012 - 07:21 AM, said:

The problem is the subprime bubble on the Westeroos castle market. Too many lords died without paying their mortage, and now the I.B is in deep trouble, but I guess its safe to expect Stannis will bail them out.

I wouldnt say "safe" (unfortunately b/c i love stannis).  I mean, they are loaning money to a guy who's army is in the woods starving to death during a snowstorm.  They're also outnumbered.  It seems to me, he's probably the riskiest person to back considerig he was never rich.

I'd lean harder on the lannisters/tyrells or even try Dany.  Im sure they've done their due dilligence on all possible options.  

Unless, as their reputation states, they have another plan to put Stannis on the throne.

[Mulled Wino]

yolkboy, on 10 August 2012 - 07:24 AM, said:

No i think Stannis is responsible for the crowns debts as part of the deal. They obviously think its better for them (in terms of regaining their outgoings) to back stannis in his war effort and get the cash off him. The best way to avoid the great Westeros credit crunch.

It's crossred my mind that the Iron Bank like to perpetuate WAR for various reasons, including financial. Just as Varys seeks chaos, so might the Iron Bank. Peace is cheap.

So you are saying if Stannis dies, the debts of the crown die with him?  I doubt that.

Stannis is broke, the IB is saavy.  No way they throw all their eggs in that basket

[Pellaeon]

Mulled Wino, on 10 August 2012 - 07:18 AM, said:

Im personally surprised that the IB hasnt gone to more drastic measures to try and collect their debts yet.   Funding a competitor is a start, but can we really assume they no nothing of Dany or Aegon?  Why havent they tried to fund Dany?  She's desparate for dough, im sure she'd take any interest rate at this point.  Maybe thats how she gets out of Mereen.

Dany: "I'm the blood of the dragon"
IB:"We are Bravoosi, we hate dragons and won't help Valyrian/Targaryan scum"

[danm_999]

Mulled Wino, on 10 August 2012 - 07:18 AM, said:

Why havent they tried to fund Dany?

Viserys tells Daenerys:

Quote

Viserys had told her a thousand times; theirs was the kingsblood, the golden blood of old Valyria, the blood of the dragon.

Tycho Nestoris tells Jon:

Quote

My lord jests. You will forgive me if I do not laugh. We Braavosi are descended from those who fled Valyria and the wroth of its dragonlords. We do not jape of dragons.

Easy to see why these two groups aren't coming together.

[Antonius Pius]

Pellaeon, on 10 August 2012 - 07:51 AM, said:

Dany: "I'm the blood of the dragon"
IB:"We are Bravoosi, we hate dragons and won't help Valyrian/Targaryan scum"

Or, Dany reasons that she has no business paying off Baratheon debts, and Stannis is the obvious Baratheon heir. She certainly won't be taking the debt on without question, the IB would really have to sweeten the pot.

In that way, the IB is tied to Iron Throne for now. Other claimants may not be ready and willing to assume the debt, or be much harder/more costly to force.

[Dr. Pepper]

Mulled Wino, on 10 August 2012 - 07:18 AM, said:

It appears that Stannis assumed the crown's debts created by his brother.  We can assume that they are still going to try and collect from the current regime no?

Im personally surprised that the IB hasnt gone to more drastic measures to try and collect their debts yet.   Funding a competitor is a start, but can we really assume they no nothing of Dany or Aegon?  Why havent they tried to fund Dany?  She's desparate for dough, im sure she'd take any interest rate at this point.  Maybe thats how she gets out of Mereen.

It wouldn't be good business for the Iron Bank to take drastic measures on a defaulter of a loan without having a back-up plan.  Funding a competent and presumably reliable competitor is a start.  Presumably, by extending a line of credit to Stannis they also will draft up some kind of agreement about his responsibility in repaying the debt the Iron Throne incurred.

They certainly know of Dany as Tycho and Jon have a small discussion about dragons.  While Dany may be desperate for dough, she does not represent a good investment.  She has proven to be an unreliable business partner and a failing ruler.  I assume the Iron Bank is concerned about extending lines of credit to those who have a proven track record in business and leadership and an ability to create and maintain a period peaceful enough to allow for satisfactory repayment of loans.

I think Aegon is too new to the scene (he only recently revealed himself to be in the game) for the Iron Bank to consider funding him.  Plus, he's already suitably funded by Illyrio and doesn't seem to be lacking in gold.  By extending credit to Stannis, it's more likely that the Iron Bank would be invested in trying to cut off Aegon's funding to prevent competition meaning Illyrio's days could be even less numbered than we think.

[yolkboy]

Mulled Wino, on 10 August 2012 - 07:33 AM, said:

So you are saying if Stannis dies, the debts of the crown die with him?  I doubt that.

Stannis is broke, the IB is saavy.  No way they throw all their eggs in that basket

No, the debts are with the crown, so the next claimant would hve to take the debt. What i'm saying is, rather than  fight with Cercei and co, the IB are giving stannis more money to try take the throne, and then getting him to pick up the tab after.
If Stannis dies, they might (for example) get back on cerseis case or back another potential usurper with a similiar deal to Stannis. But the bottom line is that if all else fails, the original debt goes back to the throne!

And as i've hinted, i think the Iron Bank have more motives than just money.

[Mulled Wino]

danm_999, on 10 August 2012 - 07:57 AM, said:

Viserys tells Daenerys:

Tycho Nestoris tells Jon:

Easy to see why these two groups aren't coming together.

Pellaeon, on 10 August 2012 - 07:51 AM, said:

Dany: "I'm the blood of the dragon"
IB:"We are Bravoosi, we hate dragons and won't help Valyrian/Targaryan scum"

I thought about that, but the reason they hate the Valyerions was because they enslaved people, especially Braaviosi.  Dany, not so much.

[Antonius Pius]

yolkboy, on 10 August 2012 - 08:08 AM, said:

If Stannis dies, they might (for example) get back on cerseis case or back another potential usurper with a similiar deal to Stannis. But the bottom line is that if all else fails, the original debt goes back to the throne!

Definitely as regards House Baratheon (which the Lannisters officially support, Stannis being considerd a rebel and a traitor and Tommen Robert's son). Not sure it applies to Dany, or that Dany (or Aegon) would feel obliged to assume this debt, as it was incurred by the dynasty that displaced it --> which would make for a nice conversation should the IB seek redress with Dany.

yolkboy, on 10 August 2012 - 08:08 AM, said:

And as i've hinted, i think the Iron Bank have more motives than just money.

It very well could have, but I must say I haven't seen it yet.

[Mulled Wino]

Antonius Pius, on 10 August 2012 - 07:58 AM, said:

Or, Dany reasons that she has no business paying off Baratheon debts, and Stannis is the obvious Baratheon heir. She certainly won't be taking the debt on without question, the IB would really have to sweeten the pot.

In that way, the IB is tied to Iron Throne for now. Other claimants may not be ready and willing to assume the debt, or be much harder/more costly to force.

Idk, Dany's done some pretty desperate things so far.

[Antonius Pius]

Yeah, but with a pay-off in the balance. What's in it for her to assume Robert's debts? The IB would have to come up with a big fleet, or line of credit, or something like that.

[Mulled Wino]

Dr. Pepper, on 10 August 2012 - 07:59 AM, said:

It wouldn't be good business for the Iron Bank to take drastic measures on a defaulter of a loan without having a back-up plan.  Funding a competent and presumably reliable competitor is a start.  Presumably, by extending a line of credit to Stannis they also will draft up some kind of agreement about his responsibility in repaying the debt the Iron Throne incurred.

They certainly know of Dany as Tycho and Jon have a small discussion about dragons.  While Dany may be desperate for dough, she does not represent a good investment.  She has proven to be an unreliable business partner and a failing ruler.  I assume the Iron Bank is concerned about extending lines of credit to those who have a proven track record in business and leadership and an ability to create and maintain a period peaceful enough to allow for satisfactory repayment of loans.

I think Aegon is too new to the scene (he only recently revealed himself to be in the game) for the Iron Bank to consider funding him.  Plus, he's already suitably funded by Illyrio and doesn't seem to be lacking in gold.  By extending credit to Stannis, it's more likely that the Iron Bank would be invested in trying to cut off Aegon's funding to prevent competition meaning Illyrio's days could be even less numbered than we think.

Mulled Wino, on 10 August 2012 - 07:31 AM, said:

I wouldnt say "safe" (unfortunately b/c i love stannis).  I mean, they are loaning money to a guy who's army is in the woods starving to death during a snowstorm.  They're also outnumbered.  It seems to me, he's probably the riskiest person to back considerig he was never rich.

I'd lean harder on the lannisters/tyrells or even try Dany.  Im sure they've done their due dilligence on all possible options.  

Unless, as their reputation states, they have another plan to put Stannis on the throne.

Stannis is in the most dire position of all contenders to the throne.

[Fender]

danm_999, on 10 August 2012 - 07:57 AM, said:

Viserys tells Daenerys:

Tycho Nestoris tells Jon:

Easy to see why these two groups aren't coming together.

Actually, I'm pretty sure that the Targaryens pre-Robert's Rebellion had an agreement with the Iron Bank, no? I don't think that all of their debts were brought solely by Bob's regime. So I don't see why they would balk helping out just another Targaryen liegelord.

[Mulled Wino]

Antonius Pius, on 10 August 2012 - 08:14 AM, said:

Yeah, but with a pay-off in the balance. What's in it for her to assume Robert's debts? The IB would have to come up with a big fleet, or line of credit, or something like that.

Only the culmination of everything she's been trying to do for her entire life.  She's ready to go, has an army, has advisors, just has no way to get there (she doesn't know about the Ironmen yet obviously)

[Mulled Wino]

yolkboy, on 10 August 2012 - 08:08 AM, said:

No, the debts are with the crown, so the next claimant would hve to take the debt. What i'm saying is, rather than  fight with Cercei and co, the IB are giving stannis more money to try take the throne, and then getting him to pick up the tab after.
If Stannis dies, they might (for example) get back on cerseis case or back another potential usurper with a similiar deal to Stannis. But the bottom line is that if all else fails, the original debt goes back to the throne!

And as i've hinted, i think the Iron Bank have more motives than just money.

I happen to agree with that.  and if its a Targ, the IB is still going to do business with a Targ, another reason why I think the Braaviosi/Valyerian strife doesn't apply when it comes to business.

[Frey Pie]

Mulled Wino, on 10 August 2012 - 07:18 AM, said:

It appears that Stannis assumed the crown's debts created by his brother.  We can assume that they are still going to try and collect from the current regime no?

Im personally surprised that the IB hasnt gone to more drastic measures to try and collect their debts yet.   Funding a competitor is a start, but can we really assume they no nothing of Dany or Aegon?  Why havent they tried to fund Dany?  She's desparate for dough, im sure she'd take any interest rate at this point.  Maybe thats how she gets out of Mereen.

Braavosi hate dragons and slaves. Dany frees slaves but has dragons. She seemed to be on the right path but then she married a slaver, opened up the fighting pits and has a slave market.

Perhaps they were going to support her but then her actions of late have made them reconsider. This may be why they waited so long to support Stannis. Look at Daario or Missandei as possible Braavosi spies IMO

[Give Cersei some LOVE]

Frey Pie, on 10 August 2012 - 08:29 AM, said:

Braavosi hate dragons and slaves. Dany frees slaves but has dragons. She seemed to be on the right path but then she married a slaver, opened up the fighting pits and has a slave market.

Perhaps they were going to support her but then her actions of late have made them reconsider. This may be why they waited so long to support Stannis. Look at Daario or Missandei Arya as possible Braavosi spies IMO