104 replies to this topic

[Dolorous Ali]

Kukushka, on 10 August 2012 - 03:14 PM, said:

Dany has the same problem, though. Unless we think that her "womb shall re-open"?

I don't think so. There are specualtions that she's not as barren as she thought. But that aside, she has a lot of more problems. Though she is a good girl, she is a completely incompetent ruler and she is mad too.
On a little off-topic matter: imagine Dany is queen, and she marries a lord, but no children come out of this marriage. So, will a relative of the king become the heir considering the fact that Dany's too obsessed about blood stuff and Valyria, and considering her madness? (I hope it would never come to that, I don't want Dany there, Westeros has enough problems already).
BTW, I like the idea of Dolorous Edd becoming king very much.

[Mulled Wino]

Jolene Brown, on 10 August 2012 - 02:04 PM, said:

He won't do anything rash against the people who sided against him during the war?  Are we talking about the same stannis who cut off the fingers off the guy who HELPED him keep storm's End?  Are you serious?

Since the series started, in four books since he was introduced, he has not won over a single ally on his own merits.  Some of Renly's men turned to him because they had no other option.  Jon has helped him because of his hatred of the Lannisters (that is made clear by his thoughts before he gives his advice to Stannis about not going after the Dreadfort and making use of the mountain clans).  The Mountain Clans help him because of fake Arya and wanting to take Winterfell from the Boltons.  Manderlay MAY help him because of Rickon.  There is no one who supports him because they actually want him to be King except his wife, her men, Melisandre, and Davos.  And they always supported him, so he didn't win them over.  The mountain men ridicule his actual loyalists as they die on the march.  So even the few people who have been loyal to him all along are the ones he is now losing.  The readers love him, but the people of Westeros just don't.  He is never going to rule.

I get why people admire him.  He is determined, and he is technically the person with the best claim, if you are looking strictly in terms of Robert's legal successor.  But there are just so many signs - his vision of the king consumed by his own crown, Donal Noye's description of him as not the "true steel," the clear fakeness of Lightbringer, the fact that his biggest/most loyal supporter (Melisandre) is founding her support on a false belief that he is Azor Ahai which will inevitably be exposed, even his lack of an appropriate heir - they are all spelling out that he will not make it to the end.

And what does it telll you that the guy who's fingers he cut of is his staunchest supporter and Hand?
He won over Jon Snow and Galbert Glover, no?

Edited by Mulled Wino, 10 August 2012 - 03:35 PM.

[Third World King]

Brony Stark, on 10 August 2012 - 03:07 PM, said:

Either Arys 'Run-into-a-troop-of-crossbowmen' Oakheart or Douchestar said it.


The Dornishmen aren't known for their offensives, so you can assume that it was the Reach that was attacking, and Dorne defending.

ETA: It was Darkstar.

Old Oak is NOT Highgarden. Just because the Oakhearts and Daynes have been killing each other for centuries, does not in anyway mean that The Reach and Dorne have been at war. It could simply have been squabbles between the individuals houses, sort of like the rivalry between the House Blackwood and House Bracken.

Edited by Third World King, 10 August 2012 - 03:44 PM.

[Brony Stark]

Third World King, on 10 August 2012 - 03:25 PM, said:

Not to worry, it is prophesied that Daenerys Stormborm of House Targaryen will descend upon the North with the fury of a thousand Thor hammers, and slay the lie, that is, Stannis Baratheon. I have already got a song ready for when that moment arrives:

In the darkness of the night
In the fury of the storm
With a silver mark of freedom
A Spirit was born

Daenerys, they named her Daenerys
Like the dragon, like the dragon that is free
Daenerys, they named her Daenerys
To be the Queen of the seven kingdoms
Her destiny

In the dusty Dothraki seas
Through the poor and ancient lands
Flies the silver haired dragon so proudly
Furious as a thousand suns

Daenerys, they named her Daenerys
She's the daughter of the dragon
Strong and free
Daenerys, they named her Daenerys
And a Queen, yes a Queen she will be

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=LTynp_EkZ4k

Mjollner.

Anyhow I'm not going to go into an explanation about how Stannis is the rightful heir through Right of Conquest.

[Darth Arya]

Arya Stark, with Tyrion Lannister as hand.

[Dany4eva]

Third World King, on 10 August 2012 - 03:25 PM, said:

Not to worry, it is prophesied that Daenerys Stormborm of House Targaryen will descend upon the North with the fury of a thousand Thor hammers, and slay the lie, that is, Stannis Baratheon. I have already got a song ready for when that moment arrives:

In the darkness of the night
In the fury of the storm
With a silver mark of freedom
A Spirit was born

Daenerys, they named her Daenerys
Like the dragon, like the dragon that is free
Daenerys, they named her Daenerys
To be the Queen of the seven kingdoms
Her destiny

In the dusty Dothraki seas
Through the poor and ancient lands
Flies the silver haired dragon so proudly
Furious as a thousand suns

Daenerys, they named her Daenerys
She's the daughter of the dragon
Strong and free
Daenerys, they named her Daenerys
And a Queen, yes a Queen she will be

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=LTynp_EkZ4k

I vote dany. She may not have knowledge of westeros n such but she has been learning, the hard way, how to be a leader and this will definitely aid her thru learning from mistakes and so forth.

[Kukushka]

Dolorous Ali, on 10 August 2012 - 03:26 PM, said:

I don't think so. There are specualtions that she's not as barren as she thought. But that aside, she has a lot of more problems. Though she is a good girl, she is a completely incompetent ruler and she is mad too.

How is she mad?

As for incompetent, I agree. But I think that's why she's been given so many "practice kingdoms." I think she's being tutored for when she gets the Iron Throne.

[Mulled Wino]

Darth Arya, on 10 August 2012 - 03:43 PM, said:

Arya Stark, with Tyrion Lannister as hand.

I'm willing to set all other opinions aside if Arya sits the iron throne.  she can even have that overrated, rash, undeserving imp as hand.  I dont care if her court consists of Tyrion as Hand, Gilly as Master of Coin, Ramsey Bolton as grand Maester, Strong Belwas as Master of Ships and Sam Tarly as Captain of the KG.

She'd keep all of them in line.

[Fender]

Kukushka, on 10 August 2012 - 03:54 PM, said:

How is she mad?

As for incompetent, I agree. But I think that's why she's been given so many "practice kingdoms." I think she's being tutored for when she gets the Iron Throne.

People seem to think that after her new adventures in the Dothraki sea, she will be somewhat mad and solely out for blood atop Drogon. I tend to think that it's a bit early to simply assume that she'll become entirely crackpot, but it's a definite possibility. Let's see how long it takes Khal Jhaqo to learn what the word Dracarys means.

[Kukushka]

Fender, on 10 August 2012 - 04:02 PM, said:

People seem to think that after her new adventures in the Dothraki sea, she will be somewhat mad and solely out for blood atop Drogon. I tend to think that it's a bit early to simply assume that she'll become entirely crackpot, but it's a definite possibility. Let's see how long it takes Khal Jhaqo to learn what the word Dracarys means.

Yeah, I didn't read that at all. She's hardened, definitely, and I think it's been a time for her to mull over the lessons she's learned with her practice kingdoms. But mad? Nah, just a bit dehydrated.

[Darth Arya]

Mulled Wino, on 10 August 2012 - 04:02 PM, said:

I'm willing to set all other opinions aside if Arya sits the iron throne.  she can even have that overrated, rash, undeserving imp as hand.  I dont care if her court consists of Tyrion as Hand, Gilly as Master of Coin, Ramsey Bolton as grand Maester, Strong Belwas as Master of Ships and Sam Tarly as Captain of the KG.

She'd keep all of them in line.

I agree, I'm not the biggest Tyrion fan but in fairness he did make a good hand, she would make an awesome Queen.

[A bowl of brown]

Well she seems to get increasingly paranoid about the prophecies and her family history does always hover over her. The fire and blood stuff is a bit worrying as well. I think its too early to say shes definitely mad but she could well be on the way.

[Mr Motte]

As far as Dany's madness is concerned, I believe she's supposed to be the halfway point between people like Rhaegar and people like Viserys/Aerys.

[Third World King]

A bowl of brown, on 10 August 2012 - 04:10 PM, said:

Well she seems to get increasingly paranoid about the prophecies and her family history does always hover over her. The fire and blood stuff is a bit worrying as well. I think its too early to say shes definitely mad but she could well be on the way.

I wouldn't really call it paranoia, especially not when all the prophecies are coming to fulfilment.

Edited by Third World King, 10 August 2012 - 04:15 PM.

[A bowl of brown]

Well I'm not sure I agree that they are. Especially if you subscribe to the glass candle theory.

[Third World King]

A bowl of brown, on 10 August 2012 - 04:17 PM, said:

Well I'm not sure I agree that they are. Especially if you subscribe to the glass candle theory.

I dunno any glass candle theory, but what prophecy do you believe has not come to pass, or will not come to pass?

[A bowl of brown]

Third World King, on 10 August 2012 - 04:19 PM, said:

I dunno any glass candle theory, but what prophecy do you believe has not come to pass, or will not come to pass?

The theory is that Quaithe is using glass candles to see the coming of Tyrion/Quentyn/Victarion/Aegon rather than any prophecy. I think the MMD stuff is just her saying it will never happen rather than a prophecy of things to come. The House of the Undying are mostly messing with her 3 betrayals seems like a bit of a low number and vague enough that it would pretty much inevitably come true.

I'm fully prepared to be proved wrong but this is what I feel at the moment.

Which prophecies do you think have come to pass?

[Brony Stark]

A bowl of brown, on 10 August 2012 - 04:26 PM, said:

The theory is that Quaithe is using glass candles to see the coming of Tyrion/Quentyn/Victarion/Aegon rather than any prophecy. I think the MMD stuff is just her saying it will never happen rather than a prophecy of things to come. The House of the Undying are mostly messing with her 3 betrayals seems like a bit of a low number and vague enough that it would pretty much inevitably come true.

I'm fully prepared to be proved wrong but this is what I feel at the moment.

Which prophecies do you think have come to pass?

Well there is the old woman at High Hill who predicted Euron's return and Sansa's Snow castle incident... but aside from that I can't think of any. Most prophecies could just be bluffs or fake.

[Third World King]

A bowl of brown, on 10 August 2012 - 04:26 PM, said:

The theory is that Quaithe is using glass candles to see the coming of Tyrion/Quentyn/Victarion/Aegon rather than any prophecy. I think the MMD stuff is just her saying it will never happen rather than a prophecy of things to come. The House of the Undying are mostly messing with her 3 betrayals seems like a bit of a low number and vague enough that it would pretty much inevitably come true.

I'm fully prepared to be proved wrong but this is what I feel at the moment.

Which prophecies do you think have come to pass?

I think it will be easier for you to list which prophecies should've come to pass but didn't, since those that have passed are too numerous to list.

Edited by Third World King, 10 August 2012 - 04:49 PM.

[A bowl of brown]

Sorry I should have clarified I meant prophecies concerning Dany. Yeah the Sansa purple snakes and Euron returns have obviously happened.