256 replies to this topic

[Viserys_The Transformed]

gutterjack, on 02 September 2012 - 06:53 AM, said:

If/when Dany learns to control her dragons and embraces the advantage of their destructive force she might be able to overcome the danger coming her way.  FM going to kill her and dragons. Iron Born going to enslave her dragons and her.  surrounded by enemies (I hope the first line of TWOW is 'dreacarys').  I am  hoping Dany becomes a super villain to some and a hero for other people.  I want to see an Arya/Dany alliance.  perhaps she betrays the fm to dany.  I want dragons to melt the FM temple- slag pit. Genocide of slavers. iron born will have to be killed off as their ways will have no place in an 'and they lived happily ever after' ending.  Dany's villainy will also be her greatness.

Sorry Dude... I root for Faceless Men in this story. They are the most sensible of all the parties in the game.

[alienarea]

Maybe Daenerys will be enslaved by Khal Jaqo (sp?) throughout TWoW and we will have to read through lengthy chapters of her being humiliated and abused.

Edited by alienarea, 22 September 2012 - 04:58 AM.

[PatrickStormborn]

alienarea, on 22 September 2012 - 04:58 AM, said:

Maybe Daenerys will be enslaved by Khal Jaqo (sp?) throughout TWoW and we will have to read through lengthy chapters of her being humiliated and abused.

If that happens, I'll stop reading the books. I'm not here to read about any POV character getting humiliated and/or abused, particularly if they're a character whom I like more than the series itself.

[Lord Liam DarkStark]

I don't think that prophecy will come true. I think mirri maz duur quenched it. I think it changed and the undying showed her leading with all the crones bowing to her. She won't be the stallion that mounts the world. But the mother to heal it. I could see her being more of an incarnation of the mother of mountains and what not for the dothraki than a stallion.

Edited by liam stark, 22 September 2012 - 12:14 PM.

[bringerofhope]

I've felt from the beginning that GRRM is setting her up for something big.  Sure, she'll do bad things, but I can't see her doing too much that in GRRM's eyes makes us dislike her.

[chrisdaw]

I think it likely she'll descend into madness. Certainly don't think Westeros will welcome her invasion. My best guess is,

Martin will further explore the concept of slavery by Dany's use of the Unsullied. She'll use them in one instance as a slave army, taking advantge of their unflinching loyalty and willingness to die without question, possibly sacrificing many in a fit of stubborness. This will upset Missandei as Marselen (her last remaining brother who is one of Dany's Unsullied) may die or Missandei may realise his death is only a matter of time under Dany's leadership, and she'll betray Dany, furthering Dany's turn.

Lemore is Ashara and Barristan's love for her and his unwillingness to follow Dany into madness as he did Aerys will lead to his betrayal of Dany. Barristan did not agree with her spurning of Quentyn and Dorne, and Ashara is in Aegon's camp and Aegon will have Dorne at his back. Barristan I expect will have apprehension concerning Dany's alliance with the Ironborn and the releasing of sellswords, Dothraki and TyionV2 on Westeros. His betrayal will involve the theft of a dragon for Aegon, setting up another Dance of the Dragons, Dany vs Aegon. I expect Aegon will take King's Landing and be backed by the faith and much of Westeros, meaning Dany will be perceived as an unwanted invader and usurper.

I think Tyrion's new found darkness isn't just a temporary phase as many here seem to believe, I think he has changed for the worse and that it's permanent. Given how he manipulated Aegon I wouldn't be surprised if he does the same to Dany, and he may encourage the above scenario and sit it out, possibly leaving him in a strengthened position.

[The Drunkard]

'Become' the villain?

[Lord Liam DarkStark]

chrisdaw, on 23 September 2012 - 12:03 AM, said:

I think it likely she'll descend into madness. Certainly don't think Westeros will welcome her invasion. My best guess is,

Martin will further explore the concept of slavery by Dany's use of the Unsullied. She'll use them in one instance as a slave army, taking advantge of their unflinching loyalty and willingness to die without question, possibly sacrificing many in a fit of stubborness. This will upset Missandei as Marselen (her last remaining brother who is one of Dany's Unsullied) may die or Missandei may realise his death is only a matter of time under Dany's leadership, and she'll betray Dany, furthering Dany's turn.

Lemore is Ashara and Barristan's love for her and his unwillingness to follow Dany into madness as he did Aerys will lead to his betrayal of Dany. Barristan did not agree with her spurning of Quentyn and Dorne, and Ashara is in Aegon's camp and Aegon will have Dorne at his back. Barristan I expect will have apprehension concerning Dany's alliance with the Ironborn and the releasing of sellswords, Dothraki and TyionV2 on Westeros. His betrayal will involve the theft of a dragon for Aegon, setting up another Dance of the Dragons, Dany vs Aegon. I expect Aegon will take King's Landing and be backed by the faith and much of Westeros, meaning Dany will be perceived as an unwanted invader and usurper.

I think Tyrion's new found darkness isn't just a temporary phase as many here seem to believe, I think he has changed for the worse and that it's permanent. Given how he manipulated Aegon I wouldn't be surprised if he does the same to Dany, and he may encourage the above scenario and sit it out, possibly leaving him in a strengthened position.

I don't think your theories are going in the right direction at all. It seems pretty stetched. The unsullied aren't slaves anymore. Dany frees all the slaves she's in contact with. And saying they'll all be betraying her just seems like guessing. Interesting enough...I don't think that's martin's style he would right out a better situation than that

[William Snow]

If Dany will turn out to be the main villian of the story, what do you guys think will come of Aegon?

[aryagonnakill]

I simply disagree, but Dany's POV with Greyworm may let us know what happens to those whose genitals that are tossed in a fire.  Some serious magic?

[DragonsHungry]

William Snow, on 23 September 2012 - 12:00 PM, said:

If Dany will turn out to be the main villian of the story, what do you guys think will come of Aegon?

I don't think Dany is the main villian of the story, but she won't be hailed as a savior either invading with a bunch of foreigners who will never be accepted by the people of Westeros.

I think Dany and Aegon are heading for the second  "Dance with Dragons", an untimely Targaryen civil wart right when the Others coming crashing down on Westeros, the winner has to deal with Westros overrun by Others.

Aegon II fought his half-sister Rhaenyra, and the outcome was Aegon II won and this ended the notion of female succession. Even though Aegon II won, in the end it was Rhaenyra's son Aegon III who took the throne, because he left behind no male heirs.

So now we have Daenerys and Aegon (whether he is a real Targaryen or Blackfyre will be debated endlessly, it likely doesn't matter), it is likely Aegon could end up with one of the Dragons via some disaster with the horn being blown in Mereen, since Dany isn't there.

So the question is will Daenerys be Aegon II or Rhaenyra?

I think she is Aegon II, feels it is hers by right and Aegon/Young Griff gets the Rhaenyra role. She wins the war and kills Aegon, he gets eaten by a dragon, makes a female monarch acceptable now, but has no children, maybe she dies in the war with the Others or dies without an heir.

The "bittersweet" part of being the Aegon II role.

Which really then when Young Griff for his brief time takes the Iron Throne, does he have a child with someone (Arianne, Margery, Sansa - she would be interesting) who will become the new "Aegon III", to continue the Targaryen line.

That would be a kicker, Sansa Stark, the regent Queen mother of the last claimant with Targaryen blood, to ironically take Cersei's place, after having endured books of her regency, only to step into her shoes, the Queen-Mother of a future King or Queen.

Aegon/Young Griff is a later developing character in Book 5, but it is not him that is important, its a longer established female character who is more the point by being his Queen for a brief time.

I just don't see GRRM letting there be a truly happy ending, I can see Daenerys winning the Iron Throne, saving the day, but then dies or isn't going to have an heir, despite the fact she might be capable again after the last book.

If Daenerys is the Rhaenyra role, it means Aegon kills her at some point, but maybe she hooks up with Jon Snow (if you believe R+L=J) and her child gets the Iron Throne.

The winner between Daenerys and Aegon wins in the short run, but the other wins in the long run. That would be very typical.

Edited by DragonsHungry, 25 September 2012 - 03:59 PM.

[William Snow]

I really don't know if I see Aegon having that big of an impact on the story.  I feel like he doesn't know what he's getting himself into. And if it comes down to a battle between Dany and Aegon, Dany is in a better position. But I don't see it coming to that.

[DragonsHungry]

William Snow, on 25 September 2012 - 09:03 PM, said:

I really don't know if I see Aegon having that big of an impact on the story.  I feel like he doesn't know what he's getting himself into. And if it comes down to a battle between Dany and Aegon, Dany is in a better position. But I don't see it coming to that.

I don't know really, heck its all just speculation. I have no idea. I think he will have some kind of role next book, but beyond that it is hard to say. Maybe it will be like Robb Stark, you hear about the exploits from other viewpoints.

I have to wonder how much GRRM's ideas about Aegon's role have evolved and changed from when he first started the story many years ago to this latest book.  He might not have been much fleshed out way back in the earlier books, but his role has evolved in the writing of Dance with Dragons and other short stories.

[chrisdaw]

Aegon is Varys master plan, he won't go out with a whimper. With Varys facilitation I expect the faith will back him as they did the first Aegon and hand him King's Landing and the Iron throne. What Aegon decides to do with Tommen/Myrcella will be a key Varys plot point.

[William Snow]

I don't know, I don't see Aegon on the Iron Throne

[Knight errant]

I'll throw in my theory as to her fate (See how I used the word "Fate"? Yeah, you know where this going). I think she'll eventually arrive back to Westeros where she will try and go about with the whole cleanse and burn fire routine while still managing to be boring (Only she has this magical prophesied gift) but the others will arrive and threaten "Her subjects, her children" and she will rush to fight them because she's their saviour blah, blah blah her pretentious dribble , dragons unsullied and all. They will of course fight the Others in an epic ice and fire clash which will kill off her and all of her dragons. Stannis will waltz in commend her for saving the realm, reinstate the targaryen house or build a nice statue maybe?  She dies, dragons dead too, lots of other characters dead, magic also disappearing, realm in debt, winter etc. They won but it's bittersweet.

[Lord Davos Seaworth]

I really hope so.  I would really love to see Jon rise (or perhaps fall is a better verb) as King of the Others to defeat Dany as the evil (or mad, whatever you like to call it) Queen of Dragons.