406 replies to this topic

[drawkcabi]

continued...

I'm real interested to see how the state polls will go in Florida over the next few weeks. I thought this was one of battle ground states that would go for Romney, now I wonder how much the seniors living there have paid attention to the Ryan plan and how many believe will swallow Romney saying Obama will do worse to medicare.

Lots of the papers there are all ready getting pessimistic about Romney's V.P. pick.

[Triskele]

The other interesting aspect of that...how much do seniors care about people behind them in the system losing their benefits if they themselves get to keep theirs?

I'm pretty sure the Ryan plan only touches people under 55.

Will the Obama folks leave this out of their attack ads?  Almost certainly.

[The Anti-Targ]

So I suspect Ryan's there to shore up the conservative / tea party voter turn out. I don't see him doing much to attract the middle. I guess that's Romney's job. Question is whether Romney is up to the task of attracting the middle, especially now that he's put a tea party darling on the ticket.

I should be disappointed if the Obama campaign are selective about their analysis of the Ryan medicare plan. But I won't be because selective analysis of opponent's policies is standard campaigning practice not matter the candidate.

[Raidne]

You know, as I leave the office right now at 4:30am and two OTHER people were leaving with me, I'm curious as to how a Paul Ryan government would work.

[Paladin of Ice]

Raidne, on 14 August 2012 - 03:24 AM, said:

You know, as I leave the office right now at 4:30am and two OTHER people were leaving with me, I'm curious as to how a Paul Ryan government would work.

I believe that can be answer with "Government? What government?" You know, except for important stuff, like the military and stopping evil women from having abortions. All the unimportant stuff like educating the young, taking care of the old, feeding the poor and trying to help as many of them as possible become functioning parts of society, that shit will all just work itself out.

[Apoapsis]

I just want to say that since the discussion seems to be mostly about this guy's budget proposal, I'm disappointed that the new thread title wasn't "Private Ryan's Savings".

[Inigima]

Raidne, on 14 August 2012 - 03:24 AM, said:

You know, as I leave the office right now at 4:30am and two OTHER people were leaving with me, I'm curious as to how a Paul Ryan government would work.

joke's on you, it wouldn't

[Merentha]

Government can't create jobs, ergo, all government jobs (but the military) would be summarily cut.  

I guess a CCC mk2 is just out of the question these days, isn't it?

[Fez]

Quote

Paul Ryan explains his Medicare reforms, scary stuff truly

...

...

You know what?  Fuck it.  I get why people get freaked out by the Medicare projections sometimes and I understand the long-term concerns about the deficit.  But anyone who thinks that's Ryan's Medicare plan is a good idea is so intellectually divorced from reality that there isn't time enough in the day to explain how wrong they are.  The wrongness flows through them so strongly that you could bottle it and sell it as a pesticide.  People who don't understand the concepts of "shifting the cost burden on to seniors" or "has a negative impact on GDP" or "will have overall negative health outcomes" are so fucking stupid, willfully or otherwise, that it makes me wonder how they can even walk upright considering what genetic throwbacks they are.

[Lord O' Bones]

Welcome to my world brother. Now fire up that fus-ball table before you lose your soul completely.


Edit: You know, to hell with it. I'm gonna register as Republican again. I was independent That was marginalized. I was Libertarian. That was... problematic. I was Independent again for lack of anything that made sense. And voted for Obama. And watched as Independent = stupid.

Henceforth, I am once again a Republican. At worst, I will be marginalized once more. At worst? I can totally live with that.

Edited by Lord O' Bones, 14 August 2012 - 08:10 AM.

[a wooden chair]

Conservative Obama hating coworkers are driving me insane today with all their Ryan youtubing. I swear if he showed up in person they would offer to rim him on the spot.

Then when they press me on my opinion I inform them I made my mind up based off his social policy as well as any fiscal talk and am now treated like I am an idiot.

[Arthmail]

Well, i'd say attack them with facts, but a great many republicans are completely divorced from such "problems." It makes their beliefs easier.

[Sci-2]

How Paul Ryan Will Screw You.

Quote

No one knows how much power Paul Ryan would actually have as vice-president in a Romney administration. But let's assume for a second that Mitt Romney is only interested in choosing the music for his wife's horse dances, and as president lets Ryan run the show — in particular, signing off on Ryan's proposed budget, a supposedly Serious Piece of Legislation that is more or less the only reason he's on the ticket in the first place.

So, here's how Paul Ryan will screw you if you're...

eta:

Woman Weds Corporation

Quote

Seattle resident Angela Vogel was given state permission to proceed with a planned wedding after officials in King County, Washington this week signed off on a marriage license between the beautiful bride-to-be and one Mr. Corporate Person: a one-and-a-half-month-old corporation established earlier this year. Jeff Reifman, a Seattle-based technologist and writer, is listed on Corporate Person’s official papers as its registered agent.

Edited by sciborg2, 14 August 2012 - 11:57 AM.

[Ser Greguh]

sciborg2, on 14 August 2012 - 11:49 AM, said:

Woman Weds Corporation

Nice.  I've long said that I'll believe corporations are people when I see Rick Perry deliver a literal lethal injection to one, but this is almost as good.

[lockesnow]

Raidne, on 14 August 2012 - 03:24 AM, said:

You know, as I leave the office right now at 4:30am and two OTHER people were leaving with me, I'm curious as to how a Paul Ryan government would work.

Well, under Paul Ryan you definitely won't have a job, nor would about 90% of your co-workers.

[Shryke]

Romney flip-flops on Ryan's Medicare plan. Again.
http://thinkprogress...rent-from-ryan/

Quote

Just a day after Mitt Romney told reporters, “my plan for Medicare is very similar to [Paul Ryan's] plan for Medicare,” former New Hampshire governor and Romney campaign chair John Sununu insisted on Tuesday morning that the former Massachusetts governor’s vision form Medicare reform is “very different” from Ryan’s proposal.

During a contentious appearance on CNN’s Starting Point, Sununu accused President Obama of stealing $716 billion from Medicare and insisted that Romney would protect the program. Asked to outline the differences between Romney’s campaign proposal and Ryan’s budget, Sununu admitted that Ryan maintains Obamacare’s reductions to Medicare — which he incorrectly argued would cut existing benefits — while Romney does not:

And here we see the VP learning from the master:
http://www.cnn.com/2...rand/index.html

Quote

Paul Ryan says that he read her books as a youth but was not influenced by her. In April, he gave an interviewto National Review in which he repudiated Rand entirely. In the interview, he called reports of his adherence to Rand's views an "urban legend" and said that he was more deeply influenced by his Roman Catholic faith and by Thomas Aquinas.
But that's not the way he was talking in 2005, when he gave a speech to the Atlas Society, a group dedicated to promoting Rand's beliefs.

In that speech, Ryan said, "I grew up reading Ayn Rand and it taught me quite a bit about who I am and what my value systems are and what my beliefs are. It's inspired me so much that it's required reading in my office for all my interns and my staff."

He went on to say that "the reason I got involved in public service, by and large, if I had to credit one thinker, one person, it would be Ayn Rand. And the fight we are in here, make no mistake about it, is a fight of individualism versus collectivism."

Here's a decent primer for Mitt's textbook on the subject:
http://www.rollingst...-flops-20120801
Including his masterwork:

Quote

FLIP-FLOPPING

Flip
"I’m a strong believer in stating your position and not wavering." — Comments to NARAL Pro Choice Massachusetts, 2002

Flop
"I changed my position." — Iowa straw poll debate, 2007

Edited by Shryke, 14 August 2012 - 12:47 PM.

[Shryke]

Also, the GOP itself is not that happy with the Ryan pick:

1) http://www.politico....9697.html?hp=t1

Quote

Away from the cameras, and with all the usual assurances that people aren’t being quoted by name, there is an unmistakable consensus among Republican operatives in Washington: Romney has taken a risk with Ryan that has only a modest chance of going right — and a huge chance of going horribly wrong.

In more than three dozen interviews with Republican strategists and campaign operatives — old hands and rising next-generation conservatives alike — the most common reactions to Ryan ranged from gnawing apprehension to hair-on-fire anger that Romney has practically ceded the election.

And the more pessimistic strategists don’t even feign good cheer: They think the Ryan pick is a disaster for the GOP. Many of these people don’t care that much about Romney — they always felt he faced an improbable path to victory — but are worried that Ryan’s vocal views about overhauling Medicare will be a millstone for other GOP candidates in critical House and Senate races

.

2) http://thehill.com/b...nd-senate-seats

Quote

Republicans strategists are worried that Rep. Paul Ryan’s (R-Wis.) addition to the presidential ticket will cost their party House and Senate seats this fall.

Their concern: Democrats will successfully demonize Ryan’s budget plan, which contains controversial spending cuts and changes to Medicare.

Quote

A number of senior Republican House and Senate strategists, speaking anonymously so they could be candid about their party’s vice presidential pick, acknowledged Ryan was good for presumptive GOP nominee Mitt Romney but expressed concern about his effect on congressional races.
  
While few Republicans said having Ryan on the ticket would help them, they argued they can neutralize the budget issue by attacking Democrats for cutting $700 billion from Medicare in their healthcare reform law.

3) The Democrats are already attacking on this front:
http://content.usato.../1#.UCqNbD1lRi5

Quote

The Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee is launching automated calls in 50 districts today aimed at tying Republican candidates to Ryan's plan to revamp Medicare, the government-run health insurance program for seniors.

It's the same tactic that helped the party push Kathy Hochul to victory last year in a special election in a GOP-held district in New York.

4) And while they have plans to combat this (see 2), they are still also backing the hell off:
http://thinkprogress...care/?mobile=nc

Quote

Republicans in tight congressional races are moving to distance themselves from Ryan and the piece of legislation for which he is best known, his extreme “Path to Prosperity” budget, in hopes that they can win over swing voters by criticizing the Medicare-ending plan.
Here are just some of the candidates eschewing the Ryan budget:

Edited by Shryke, 14 August 2012 - 12:57 PM.

[Ser Greguh]

Apoapsis, on 14 August 2012 - 06:19 AM, said:

I just want to say that since the discussion seems to be mostly about this guy's budget proposal, I'm disappointed that the new thread title wasn't "Private Ryan's Savings".

Incorrect.  "Saving Ryan's Privatization" is superior.

[Triskele]

Fez, on 14 August 2012 - 07:41 AM, said:

...

...

You know what?  Fuck it.  I get why people get freaked out by the Medicare projections sometimes and I understand the long-term concerns about the deficit.  But anyone who thinks that's Ryan's Medicare plan is a good idea is so intellectually divorced from reality that there isn't time enough in the day to explain how wrong they are.  The wrongness flows through them so strongly that you could bottle it and sell it as a pesticide.  People who don't understand the concepts of "shifting the cost burden on to seniors" or "has a negative impact on GDP" or "will have overall negative health outcomes" are so fucking stupid, willfully or otherwise, that it makes me wonder how they can even walk upright considering what genetic throwbacks they are.

Check out just how confused they are on the whole thing anyway:

Quote

The second, larger problem is that Ryan’s budget, in order to make the numbers add up (or pretend to add up) keeps Obama’s Medicare cuts in place. This is problematic in its own terms — the government will slash reimbursements for hospitals treating the uninsured, but rather than reducing the number of uninsured, Ryan will dramatically increase it. This is just one of many social disasters embedded in Ryan’s wild plan. But, of more immediate relevance, it also steps right on Romney’s message. If Romney is so angry about robbing Medicare, why does his running mate’s plan commit the same robbery?

Quote

Asked about this at a press conference yesterday, Romney stumbled and then clarified that, unlike Ryan, he will roll back Obama’s Medicare cuts. So, if Romney keeps Ryan’s Medicare plan in other respects — and note that Ryan spends the same amount on Medicare as Obama, he just structures it differently, through private insurance vouchers — then Romney’s plan is to spend more on Medicare than Obama.

[RWHamel]

Paladin of Ice, on 14 August 2012 - 03:35 AM, said:

I believe that can be answer with "Government? What government?" You know, except for important stuff, like the military and stopping evil women from having abortions. All the unimportant stuff like educating the young, taking care of the old, feeding the poor and trying to help as many of them as possible become functioning parts of society, that shit will all just work itself out.

Most likely with an even larger number of prisons, and more police officers, who can then pester the citizens of Calgary while they are on vacation.