David J. Peterson Creating Valyrian Language

[Aedan Stormrage]

I would assume the low Valyrian probably has a genitive preposition + "death", this word could be in a kind of oblique case, but I doubt it's a complete inflectional system. Now, the High Valyrian could be accusative or maybe even genitive, ablative or who knows? It all depends of the verb. Also consider that the verbs might be inflected here and are not the infinitive.

Clearly it seems that "ji vali nedhinki" is "the brave men" vs. High Valyrian "nedyssy" that might mean "brave ones", using an adjective as a noun, which is common in Latin and Romance languages.

[Words of Winter]

"Okay, Emilia. I know last time when you said "Mumbo jumbo est blah foo something mumble" you said it with that funny accent. This time, you're going to say it a little differently. What? No, your last take was great. No, no. GREAT. Perfect. You totally nailed it. You see, this time it's in a different dialect of Valyrian, it's the mongrel tongue of Ghi- what? What do you mean "for god's sake, who is going to notice that the fake language you're speaking sounds different from the first time you said the line?"

Maybe they'll change font or color. :)

[Abaddon]

Yah, I gotta say, I've never been happier to eat my words. I'm still absolutely blown away about the level of detail they have achieved with the languages from the book.

[EDIT] By the way, I saw on the TVWP Unspoiled Speculation thread (of all places) that the closed captions indicated "Speaking Valyrian".

[Blutrabe]

Being a Valyrian and not knowing High Valyrian would be more odd.

Just because they're of Valyrian descent doesn't mean that the Targaryens speak Valyrian at home.

[boojam]

Just because they're of Valyrian descent doesn't mean that the Targaryens speak Valyrian at home.

You'd have to be born and raised by people who did not speak Valyrian , in Dany's case this was not so.

[Blutrabe]

You'd have to be born and raised by people who did not speak Valyrian , in Dany's case this was not so.

I would assume that Willem Darry's household spoke the Common Tongue. But of course the Targaryen children were exposed to Low Valyrian.

[boojam]

I would assume that Willem Darry's household spoke the Common Tongue. But of course the Targaryen children were exposed to Low Valyrian.

It's hard to believe that Aerys II 's Master at Arms would not know High Valyrian.

Or that Willem Darry would not have been able to bring some Rhaella Targaryen`s household, who would have definitely spoken High Valyrian to Braavos.

And as I mention Viserys Targaryen who was nearly ten would have spoken it and hence taught his sister.

Since they spoke High Valyrian I am sure it was easy to pick up the various low Valyrian's.

George mentions explicitly, when we finally get to it, that Dany speaks High Valyrian* , but she does understand low and maybe all the versions there of.

* ASOS Daenerys III

[boojam]

* ASOS Daenerys III

"Do you have a name, or must you draw a new one every day from some barrel"?

"That is only for Unsullied," the girl said. Then she realized the question had been asked in High Valyrian. Her eye went wide. "Oh."

"Your name is Oh?"

Your Grace , forgive this one her outburst. Your slave's name is Missandei, but ..."

-- George R.R. Martin .... SoS

In this one sentence we are informed that both Missandei and Dany know and speak High Valyrian.

Let this put aside all questions about Dany being able to speak High Valyrian.

(The rest of the dialog on the next few pages probably went in High Valyrian , George did not have that in hand at the time, and wouldn't make sense to do anyway. I doubt the show will do it either, but with the use of subtitles it would be charming if it had of been done.

[Horus Ex Machina]

"Okay, Emilia. I know last time when you said "Mumbo jumbo est blah foo something mumble" you said it with that funny accent. This time, you're going to say it a little differently. What? No, your last take was great. No, no. GREAT. Perfect. You totally nailed it. You see, this time it's in a different dialect of Valyrian, it's the mongrel tongue of Ghi- what? What do you mean "for god's sake, who is going to notice that the fake language you're speaking sounds different from the first time you said the line?"

We will know... we will know...

[Jörün Jötnirsbänir]

Here someone (sheehy) has tried to make som sense out of the Valyrian parts: http://hurlingfrootm...alyrianprofile/

Even if its a impressive effort theres some discrepancies compared to the sentence Peterson posted in his blog.

• J’azanty ivetras ji vali nedhinki sizi zughilis vi murgho.
  
• “The knight says that even the brave men fear death.”
  
• Became
  
• Zhe zanti evtrashivali nevingi sizi zoxinis vi morghul.
  

Anyhow, I got inspired and wanted to take my own take on the Valyrian. Even though I may have been a bit corrupted by reading the first transcription I tried to make it my own effort but trying to use Petersons spelling as a model if possible. Since I am not really trained in this area nor am I a native speaker it would probably had been easier just to rewrite the first transcription with Petersons spelling in mind. But hey, whats the fun in that?

Ok, heres my take on it. (Clip to the scene: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBdWStMpgzE)

K: (Do jughiz, ivetras ji liva vesterosi) eskobezi dovoghedi, e jutiz mitovi ji imbar doghavodore jetadosh

M: “The Unsullied have stood for a day and a night with no food or water.”

K: Ivetras ji reni ji oghal kelvinkosko meshoros livas eva rughilis .

M: “They will stand until they drop…”

K: Meghisi bujar pitenkavesa.

M: “…such is their obedience.”

M: J’apra Vesterosi alas kreni,

Subtitle: “The Westerosi woman is pleased with them,”

M: (i)¨Ivetras dore vi jevagho mangimilis govejoghved

S: “…but speaks no praise to keep the price down.”

M: evas ginnighos kolkido masmelis ban mari

S: “She wishes to know how they are trained.”

K Uni begistas vesterosi liskuni devodeda [?]-skov biliase adreheghido.

S: “Tell her what she would know and be quick about it.”

K: J’etovi la espany.

S: “The day is hot”

K: Sergovni mishi dovoghedi.

M: “Unsullieds discipline/ loyalty is absolute.”

K: Asa morvi dida

M: “They fear nothing.”

M: J’azanty ivetras ji vali nedhinki sizi zughilis vi murgho.

S: “The knight says even brave men fear death.”

K: Ivetras evebito size sorkos.

S: “Tell the old man he smells of piss.”

M: Sfagize, aise?

S: “Truly, master?”

K: Do-svagize!

S: “No, not truly!”

K: Skapala jeh kubeh pindau kuma ofsinao.

S: “Are you a girl or a goat to ask such a thing?”

K: , ivetras ghosi dovoghedi dosi vetida

M: “My master says the Unsullied are not men.”

K: J’epasa morve dida.

M: “Death means nothing to them.”

K: vetras besalive ondio devodeda

S: Tell this ignorant whore of a Westerner…

K: : Esi magho.

S: …to open her eyes and watch.

K: Awa! Azandi.

K: Zise seneki sido dose livas- kara odreta va dovistos

S: She’s worried about their nipples? Does the dumb bitch know we’ve cut off their balls?

K: Avi didant!

S: Here, I’m done with you.

US: Bese las kreni au tatago.

S: This one is pleased to have served you.

K: Manaragho sisombe, se levagh ji dovoghedi si vasigho, XXX siza seneghoboleo sezi miza nagho

M: “To win his shield, an Unsullied must go to the slave markets with a silver mark, find a newborn, and kill it before its mother’s eyes.

K: Maghizi lodole skodo nakostavare ,,,, um se pa

M: “This way, we make certain there is no weakness in them.”

M: Las angoda.

S: She is offended.

M: Pindas lugh roghila megalebo va ji myhsa zio rugho morghisi.

S: She asks if you pay a silver coin to the mother, for her dead baby.

K: Kuni metiv vezi, bavavori vezi.

S: What a soft mewling fool this one is.

K: : Ivetras ji khaleboses ji maris los dosis esa

M: “the silver is paid to the baby’s owner.”

D: How many do you have to sell?

M: Pinas ghovedi dovoghedi lis laraski

K: Ivetras ji liva vesterosi, ekisa eva vaneko.

S: Tell the Western whore she has until tomorrow.

[boojam]

Here someone (sheehy) has tried to make som sense out of the Valyrian parts: http://hurlingfrootm...alyrianprofile/

Even if its a impressive effort theres some discrepancies compared to the sentence Peterson posted in his blog.

• J’azanty ivetras ji vali nedhinki sizi zughilis vi murgho.
  
• “The knight says that even the brave men fear death.”
  
• Became
  
• Zhe zanti evtrashivali nevingi sizi zoxinis vi morghul.
  

Anyhow, I got inspired and wanted to take my own take on the Valyrian. Even though I may have been a bit corrupted by reading the first transcription I tried to make it my own effort but trying to use Petersons spelling as a model if possible. Since I am not really trained in this area nor am I a native speaker it would probably had been easier just to rewrite the first transcription with Petersons spelling in mind. But hey, whats the fun in that?

Ok, heres my take on it. (Clip to the scene: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBdWStMpgzE)

Did you post to David Peterson's blog? He is very friendly and usually answers all questions.

[Jörün Jötnirsbänir]

Did you post to David Peterson's blog? He is very friendly and usually answers all questions.

Dunno if I had a question really, I was more into the puzzle of it. :)

[Aedan Stormrage]

Well, I would add that for example "death" we know must have some relation to "murgho" so:

K: J’epasa morve dida.

M: “Death means nothing to them.”

is probably "morghe" or something like that. Also "j'epasa" is unlikely due to "ji" being the article. The sentence is "death means nothing to them", it could be "to/for them death (is) nothing" or something like that, but not "the them" at any rate it could have been "ji morghe" but this doesn't seem to be the case.

[Jörün Jötnirsbänir]

Well, I would add that for example "death" we know must have some relation to "murgho" so:

K: J’epasa morve dida.

M: “Death means nothing to them.”

is probably "morghe" or something like that. Also "j'epasa" is unlikely due to "ji" being the article. The sentence is "death means nothing to them", it could be "to/for them death (is) nothing" or something like that, but not "the them" at any rate it could have been "ji morghe" but this doesn't seem to be the case.

Nice feedback, feel free to comment on other passages aswell. :)

It could be the j'e-part was a bit of "over"-hearing from my side. Dida seems to resemble Kraznys commands a bit but I can't think of any plausibel connection as of now. If not the actual translation would be something along the lines of that the unsullied can be commanded to death. But thats a bit offtrack ^^

[Aedan Stormrage]

Nice feedback, feel free to comment on other passages aswell. :)

It could be the j'e-part was a bit of "over"-hearing from my side. Dida seems to resemble Kraznys commands a bit but I can't think of any plausibel connection as of now. If not the actual translation would be something along the lines of that the unsullied can be commanded to death. But thats a bit offtrack ^^

Well, also I would point out that probably "ivetras" means "he/she says" and "ivetra" is "Say!", maybe we are looking to present indicative vs. imperative. I clearly hear "ivetra ji". But then again, I could be wrong.

[Jörün Jötnirsbänir]

A new extensive blogpost from Mr P after ep302. http://www.dothraki....i-udra-zobriar/

Some new examples:

Pindas skoverdi Dovoghedhi lis lerraski.

“She asks how many Unsullied are for sale.”

Ivetra ji live Vesterozia kisa eva vaneqo.

“Tell the Westerosi whore she has until tomorrow.”

[boojam]

A new extensive blogpost from Mr P after ep302. http://www.dothraki....i-udra-zobriar/

Some new examples:

Since high and low Valyrian would have been Dany's puppy languages, why does she not speak the common tongue with an accent?

[Aedan Stormrage]

Because High Valyrian is only learnt and Common Tongue is her native.

[boojam]

Because High Valyrian is only learnt and Common Tongue is her native.

Well Viserys , Ser Willem Darry and his house hold could have taught her to be bilingual.

Viserys would make sure tho that as a royal she would speak High Valyrian as her native language.

Think on it, in Braavos Low Valyrian was the 'common tongue', surely many would speak the common tongue,but growing up she would mostly hear low Valyrian.

[Aedan Stormrage]

Again, High Valyrian is certainly dead. It is taught as a learned language. Compare it to Latin in Medieval Times, nobility knew Latin, but Latin was never a native language or a mother tongue. So it is unlikely to produce an accent.

In any case you bring your own accent to Latin (or High Valyrian in this case)