477 replies to this topic

[Gannicus]

~Mya Bara Stone~, on 26 January 2013 - 09:20 AM, said:

I really think you're letting your obvious dislike of the character Sansa cloud your views on this subject.
Sansa was forever watched, it was an incredibly brave thing for her to do, to sneak out of her captivity and to meet Dontos.

As I've said many times I like Sansa. I think she has become a really kind soul, who hasn't deserved any of the bs that happened to her.

I only hope she continues her development and ends up more like Cat and some of her other family members.

Edited by Gannicus, 26 January 2013 - 09:25 AM.

[Theda Baratheon]

Elba the Intoner, on 26 January 2013 - 09:21 AM, said:

Yes exactly and she was being regularly beaten by that point too and was worried that her maids were spying on her.

Exactly, I don't think it's safe to say this was all in her head. Because she was being kept a very close eye on as she was a valuable captive.

[Ser Grimes]

The Mad Mouse is there on a covert black ops mission to rescue here...or to put it more accurately: capture her and return her to KL.

[Nelapsi]

~Mya Bara Stone~, on 26 January 2013 - 09:17 AM, said:

Arya isn't a tactical genius, she is a young angry girl and Sansa is not completely unintelligent...they both survived in their own roles, but had those roles reversed I can't say it's likely that they would have survived.

Totally. They were both in their element, in some twisted way. Arya is wild, and not fit for court, while Sansa can work her way around court but wouldn't last long in, let's say, Harrenhal. Both had to be brave and somewhat clever to survive, and they both did.

[Newstar]

Nelapsi, on 26 January 2013 - 12:34 PM, said:

Totally. They were both in their element, in some twisted way. Arya is wild, and not fit for court, while Sansa can work her way around court but wouldn't last long in, let's say, Harrenhal. Both had to be brave and somewhat clever to survive, and they both did.

I think we might see a bit of a reversal of this in the future, though. Arya is being sent to Izembaro and will require a "pretty face." It's a bit of a stretch, but maybe she'll be trained in ladylike arts and graces (and, this time around, will prove a more diligent and capable student). As for Sansa, she's been stuck in one courtly setting after another, but in the future, she could wind up "roughing it," especially if she spends any amount of time traipsing around the North and dealing with wildlings and such. If she's ever going to be Queen in the North material, the pampered, refined southron lady shtick has to go.

Edited by Newstar, 26 January 2013 - 03:27 PM.

[Greengrace]

Newstar, on 26 January 2013 - 03:24 PM, said:

I think we might see a bit of a reversal of this in the future, though. Arya is being sent to Izembaro and will require a "pretty face." It's a bit of a stretch, but maybe she'll be trained in ladylike arts and graces (and, this time around, will prove a more diligent and capable student). As for Sansa, she's been stuck in one courtly setting after another, but in the future, she could wind up "roughing it," especially if she spends any amount of time traipsing around the North and dealing with wildlings and such. If she's ever going to be Queen in the North material, the pampered, refined southron lady shtick has to go.

I like this

[Kittykatknits]

Gannicus, on 26 January 2013 - 09:17 AM, said:

But now this is what I'm talking about. Suddenly a visit to the godswood becomes an act of great strength and bravery. A trip like that could easily be explained away and much of the fear she felt was created in her own mind.

You help to illustrate why the two sisters cannot be compared in how they handled their stints in captivity.

Actually, here trips to the godswood are noticed and asked about by Cersei. She took a knife with her the first time she visits which can be taken as a sign that she's very aware of the danger she is in if she goes and gets caught. Also, during her return trip, she is saved by the Hound. They confront Blount who had asked her where she had been and he lies to protect her. If he had not been there, she'd have been taken to Joff which would not have ended well. So, I don't think it is fair to say there is no element of bravery here.

[aryagonnakill]

Gannicus, on 26 January 2013 - 09:24 AM, said:

As I've said many times I like Sansa. I think she has become a really kind soul, who hasn't deserved any of the bs that happened to her.

I only hope she continues her development and ends up more like Cat and some of her other family members.

More like Cat!!! WTF!?!?!?!?!?!?!   Cat is one of the few characters in the book who can be literally described as Insane at this point.  And even before then she took out all of her frustration on an innocent person, while many women on this forum don't blame her for that I still state that it was wrong of her to pass off her ill will towards Ned onto Jon, a child is a child.

[aryagonnakill]

Newstar, on 26 January 2013 - 03:24 PM, said:

I think we might see a bit of a reversal of this in the future, though. Arya is being sent to Izembaro and will require a "pretty face." It's a bit of a stretch, but maybe she'll be trained in ladylike arts and graces (and, this time around, will prove a more diligent and capable student). As for Sansa, she's been stuck in one courtly setting after another, but in the future, she could wind up "roughing it," especially if she spends any amount of time traipsing around the North and dealing with wildlings and such. If she's ever going to be Queen in the North material, the pampered, refined southron lady shtick has to go.

Even tho I love Arya for who she is, it seems the most likely choice for the FM to teach her in these arts, as I just recently relearned that even when for a you know for a fact that a girl is teasing you, it is still impossible not to get turned on.

[Blue Rose Direwolf]

aryagonnakill, on 29 January 2013 - 07:40 AM, said:

More like Cat!!! WTF!?!?!?!?!?!?!   Cat is one of the few characters in the book who can be literally described as Insane at this point.  And even before then she took out all of her frustration on an innocent person, while many women on this forum don't blame her for that I still state that it was wrong of her to pass off her ill will towards Ned onto Jon, a child is a child.

Of course you're right, it wasn't fair of her to treat Jon the way she did. But still, no one's perfect. In many other ways she was a good person so I can't condemn her just for one thing. She was a loving mother, a loving and loyal wife, a clever statesman (she negotiated for Robb several times and advised him in many ways that helped). And she was a kind person, she vouched for Brienne to save her, she didn't execute Tyrion even though she had great reason to believe he'd conspired against her son. She set Tyrion free when he won his trial by combat.

Cat is most definitely a monster now, no doubt about it, but she wasn't always like that.

[Blue Rose Direwolf]

aryagonnakill, on 29 January 2013 - 07:43 AM, said:

Even tho I love Arya for who she is, it seems the most likely choice for the FM to teach her in these arts, as I just recently relearned that even when for a you know for a fact that a girl is teasing you, it is still impossible not to get turned on.

Haha! That's hilarious!

[Blue Rose Direwolf]

Newstar, on 26 January 2013 - 03:24 PM, said:

I think we might see a bit of a reversal of this in the future, though. Arya is being sent to Izembaro and will require a "pretty face." It's a bit of a stretch, but maybe she'll be trained in ladylike arts and graces (and, this time around, will prove a more diligent and capable student). As for Sansa, she's been stuck in one courtly setting after another, but in the future, she could wind up "roughing it," especially if she spends any amount of time traipsing around the North and dealing with wildlings and such. If she's ever going to be Queen in the North material, the pampered, refined southron lady shtick has to go.

If this happens, it would be awesome. It's about time Arya got some lady wiles and Sansas got dirt under her fingernails.

[juanml82]

Newstar, on 26 January 2013 - 03:24 PM, said:

I think we might see a bit of a reversal of this in the future, though. Arya is being sent to Izembaro and will require a "pretty face." It's a bit of a stretch, but maybe she'll be trained in ladylike arts and graces (and, this time around, will prove a more diligent and capable student). As for Sansa, she's been stuck in one courtly setting after another, but in the future, she could wind up "roughing it," especially if she spends any amount of time traipsing around the North and dealing with wildlings and such. If she's ever going to be Queen in the North material, the pampered, refined southron lady shtick has to go.

I'd love to see an scene that plays like this:

(Insert a random Frey, Bolton, Lannister, or Baelish) finished telling Harrold Aryn his tale of dangerous journey across the mountain while Maester Colemon tended to his wounds. Snow filled the night. To his left, a door opened, letting the cold outside air enter the hall. He saw a slim and gorgeous lady dressed in white and black furs entering the room, a purple hairnet adorning her red hair and a silver goblet in her.
Her eyes, blue as winter a night, fixed upon him and cold fury was drawn in every line of her young face "(random Frey, Bolton, Lannister, or Baelish)" she said "you have (insert long list of crimes committed against the North and the Riverlands). Drink"
(random bad guy) looked at her with an uneasy feeling in his throat, and shook his head. In front of him, Lord Aryn watched with surprise and, just maybe, a hint of fear.
"Drink. The Lady of the Vale commands it" said the woman
Seeing how Lord Aryn didn't unauthorized this lady (random bad guy) had no choice but to drink from the cup. As the liquid descended upon his stomach, he felt his throat contracting. He grabbed it with his hands, he pointed at his back, requesting someone to hit him to expel whatever was obstructing his breathing, but none came. He coughed. It was to no avail. As his vision begun to blur and he felt from the chair, he could only fixate in the woman over him
"For your crimes, I, Sansa Stark, first of her name, Queen in the North, Lady of the First Men and Protector of the Realm, sentence you to death"

It won't happen, though.

[Little Red Riding Hood]

I hope not.
In fact, when  Eddar Stark raised his sword and beheaded a man, the events- that led to the ruin of his house- are rushed.

Life is full of possibilities.

[The King of Worms]

Ser Grimes, on 26 January 2013 - 11:24 AM, said:

The Mad Mouse is there on a covert black ops mission to rescue here...or to put it more accurately: capture her and return her to KL.

The Mad Mouse is there, and he was seeking Sansa just like Brienne was. So maybe he'll make a grab for the female "kingslayer" for the big Lannister reward in King's Landing. He's not written in there for no reason surely.
Also its hinted that Bronze Yohn did recognize her, maybe through seeing a family resemblance to Catlyn in her face. Bronze Yohn is perhaps not fooled by Littlefinger's reluctant Lord of the Vale and grieving husband act. Maybe the hedge knight Mad Mouse is actually working for Bronze Yohn. Bronze Yohn is one of those knights like Blackfish who wanted the Vale to jump in on the war with Robb Stark, except he was loyal to his Lady's orders. He also resents this outsider lord and has no reason to trust him. So maybe the Mad Mouse approached Yohn in his quest to find Sansa... and so maybe Sansa has hidden allies.
Sansa I think will find out that Sweetrobin's medicine is actually slowly killing him, and I think she still has Stark honor that will make her want to protect the awful boy. She will betray Littlefinger before he can kill the kid, even though it messes up her chances of the real wedding with the handsome lad that she always wanted. Somehow the Mad Mouse and/or Yohn will be her allies in escaping with the boy, or exposing Littlefinger to the Vale...? Just a theory anyways.
Or the flip is that Sansa finds out the boy is being poisoned and goes along with it, gets to be a Lady, maybe even queen of the north and have her handsome heir and awesome wedding... following the path of Littlefinger and becoming totally corrupt like him.

[Tini]

I don't think that it is necessary to poison Sweetrobin. His health problems will kill him eventually. It is quite possible that Littlefinger and Alayne will be suspected of poisoning him, though. That is what the maester would say, he won't take the responsibility for giving the boy sweetsleep or whatever it was called. I think the maester is scheduled for a fatal accident shortly after little Robert's death, though, if Littlefinger isn't stopped.

As for Sansa's rescue, Sansa is a team player. In KL she was weak because she had been stripped of her team. Now she is a part of Littlefinger's team but she has been building her own team as well since KL. I expect her rescue to be a team effort then. Sansa will contribute to it, certainly, but she will have help.

[Little Red Riding Hood]

Tini, on 31 January 2013 - 10:38 AM, said:

As for Sansa's rescue, Sansa is a team player. In KL she was weak because she had been stripped .. she has been building her own team as well since KL. I expect her rescue to be a team effort then. Sansa will contribute to it, certainly, but she will have help.

Totally agree.

Edited by Little Red Riding Hood, 31 January 2013 - 12:23 PM.

[Lord_Tyrell]

Herself