28 replies to this topic

[TheRedPriest]

Hey guys, what episode do you think GRRM will write this season?
(just state the main events that would fit in an episode)

My bet is the Red Wedding or Joff's Marriage

Edited by TerraPrime, 21 August 2012 - 10:26 AM.

[NomadicDirewolf]

episode 7 'autumn storms' is the one he's doing, and he's confirmed that that isnt the RW

[protar]

It will most likely be the events at Queenscrown and I can also see the 3 leeches and Balon's death as the episode climax.

[princethomas]

With all of the rain they talk about with Robb and Cat on the way to the Twins. As well as the lightning and storms at Queenscrown. My guess is thats going to be that episode. Putting the RW in episode 8.  And Maybe the Battle of Castle Black in episode 9.

[Franz95]

princethomas, on 21 August 2012 - 01:37 PM, said:

With all of the rain they talk about with Robb and Cat on the way to the Twins. As well as the lightning and storms at Queenscrown. My guess is thats going to be that episode. Putting the RW in episode 8.  And Maybe the Battle of Castle Black in episode 9.

The battle of Castle Black will be in season 4. Why would they split the book in two seasons if they mean to get to page 1000 in Season 3? Anyway, I think that "Autumn Storms" will be about the northern army on its way to the Twins and Balon's death. As for Queenscrown, I think it might be in the last episode. But maybe it's just because I still hope Donal Noye will be casted for season 4.

[BannermanOfDorne]

Franz95, on 21 August 2012 - 03:23 PM, said:

The battle of Castle Black will be in season 4. Why would they split the book in two seasons if they mean to get to page 1000 in Season 3? Anyway, I think that "Autumn Storms" will be about the northern army on its way to the Twins and Balon's death. As for Queenscrown, I think it might be in the last episode. But maybe it's just because I still hope Donal Noye will be casted for season 4.

Well maybe the first (little) battle at Castle Black could be at the end of season 3, the one where Ygritte dies, the rest will probably be happen in season 4.

[NomadicDirewolf]

Franz95, on 21 August 2012 - 03:23 PM, said:

The battle of Castle Black will be in season 4. Why would they split the book in two seasons if they mean to get to page 1000 in Season 3? Anyway, I think that "Autumn Storms" will be about the northern army on its way to the Twins and Balon's death. As for Queenscrown, I think it might be in the last episode. But maybe it's just because I still hope Donal Noye will be casted for season 4.

queenscrown wont be in the last episode, it comes quite a before the Red Wedding. In europe storm of swords is split into two, ending at queenscrown with jon escaping, so logically if they split it straight down the middle, that'd be the end of season three. But we know it isnt, as they're casting daario naharis(dany storyline in book 1 ends with 'dracarys' and we meet dario just before the battle of yunkai)and they've said the rw will be in this season and its at least a quarter of the way into book 2, so we're getting a disproportionate amount of aSoS this season. Maybe Burn Gorman or Noah Taylor are donal noye? they've been seen with the rest of the NW cast recently

[Davos' fingertip]

BannermanOfDorne, on 21 August 2012 - 03:41 PM, said:

Well maybe the first (little) battle at Castle Black could be at the end of season 3, the one where Ygritte dies, the rest will probably be happen in season 4.

The rest isn't enough to span out a whole season. The first season will focus on Jon meeting Mance and crew, the introduction to Giants and Mammoths, The wildlings and Jon climbing the wall, then the Journey to Queenscrown, and i expect the fight at Queenscrown and his escape to close the season for him.

NomadicDirewolf, on 21 August 2012 - 04:35 PM, said:

queenscrown wont be in the last episode, it comes quite a before the Red Wedding. In europe storm of swords is split into two, ending at queenscrown with jon escaping, so logically if they split it straight down the middle, that'd be the end of season three. But we know it isnt, as they're casting daario naharis(dany storyline in book 1 ends with 'dracarys' and we meet dario just before the battle of yunkai)and they've said the rw will be in this season and its at least a quarter of the way into book 2, so we're getting a disproportionate amount of aSoS this season. Maybe Burn Gorman or Noah Taylor are donal noye? they've been seen with the rest of the NW cast recently

Who told you they follow the books so closely? They have to make such decisions for the tv show, they don't make the tv show follow the books chapter by chapter. Red Wedding might have happened after Jon's escape, but these two events don't interact which each other, so they will likely still have Queenscrown end the season. So what if Daario is cast? They just want to introduce him with Dany this season, and her storyline doesn't interact with Jon's either, so they can make little changes.

Fact is, Jon needs the whole Castle Black war for season 4, or else they'll have to leave him out in quite a few episodes.

Edited by Davos' fingertip, 21 August 2012 - 04:51 PM.

[Jaimeisnotazombie]

Balon's death
3 Leeches, only GRRM would do this the right way.
Queenscrown
Arya and the Hound/Robb and Co on the way to Their "uncles bloody wedding"

Maybe, i dont remeber exactly the part of the book this happens in, Whitebeard revaled as Barristan the Bold.

[Magnar of Thenn]

Jaimeisnotazombie, on 21 August 2012 - 08:12 PM, said:

Maybe, i dont remeber exactly the part of the book this happens in, Whitebeard revaled as Barristan the Bold.

This happens just before the infiltration of Meereen I think, but I actually think it works better is Barristan is revealed earlier (although it does alter the Jorah storyline)

[Lannister Hamster]

Magnar of Thenn, on 21 August 2012 - 10:45 PM, said:

This happens just before the infiltration of Meereen I think, but I actually think it works better is Barristan is revealed earlier (although it does alter the Jorah storyline)

Not so much, he can still be jealous of the relationship Barristan has with Dany just without the nagging suspicion

[protar]

Davos, on 21 August 2012 - 04:44 PM, said:

The rest isn't enough to span out a whole season. The first season will focus on Jon meeting Mance and crew, the introduction to Giants and Mammoths, The wildlings and Jon climbing the wall, then the Journey to Queenscrown, and i expect the fight at Queenscrown and his escape to close the season for him.




Who told you they follow the books so closely? They have to make such decisions for the tv show, they don't make the tv show follow the books chapter by chapter. Red Wedding might have happened after Jon's escape, but these two events don't interact which each other, so they will likely still have Queenscrown end the season. So what if Daario is cast? They just want to introduce him with Dany this season, and her storyline doesn't interact with Jon's either, so they can make little changes.

Fact is, Jon needs the whole Castle Black war for season 4, or else they'll have to leave him out in quite a few episodes.

I think the Battle at Castle Black (the one were Ygritte dies.) should be at the end of S3. It's just the perfect closer for Jon's arc. Also consider the fact that there is Bran's arc to consider as well. Queenscrown would make a decent finale for Jon (even if I think Castle Black would be better.) but it would involve stretching out Bran's already sparse arc over 3 more episodes so it syncs up with Jon's.

There's also plenty of material for the rest of the Battle at the Wall to take place throughout S4. We could also see the events from the wilding POV as well, to flesh things out a bit and give Mance and co. some more screen time. For example:

• E1: Jon and the NW are preparing for an  attack on the Wall. At the wildling camp Mance prepares to attack and we're introduced to Val. The NW climb up to the top of the Wall and see the entirety of Mance's host with dramatic music and all.
  
• E2: Doesn't appear.
  
• E4: Mance sends out a turtle to attack the Wall. The NW fight it off.
  
• E3: The giants attack the Wall and kill Donal Noye. Mance scene.
  
• E5: Janos Slynt arrives at Castle Black. He accuses Jon of being a traitor and a wildling and throws him into an ice cell.
  
• E6: Doesn't appear
  
• E7: Jon is in his ice cell. Janos Slynt visits him and tells him that Jon must kill Mance Rayder in a false parley, or he'll be hanged.
  
• E8: Jon goes out to treat with Mance. The parley is interrupted by Stannis Baratheon's attack. (Episode climax.)
  
• E9: Stannis has set up shop at the Wall. He makes his offer to Jon to become lord of Winterfell.
  
• E10: Jon is elected LC.

Edited by protar, 22 August 2012 - 04:39 AM.

[Franz95]

Jaimeisnotazombie, on 21 August 2012 - 08:12 PM, said:

Maybe, i dont remeber exactly the part of the book this happens in, Whitebeard revaled as Barristan the Bold.

Are we really sure that the whole Whitebeard plot is going to be kept? It will be much harder to keep hidden. Maybe Barristan will just show up in episode 8-9 and say "heh, well, Your Grace, I was here and I thought I could come round to greet you..."

[Lannister Hamster]

Franz95, on 22 August 2012 - 04:58 AM, said:

Are we really sure that the whole Whitebeard plot is going to be kept? It will be much harder to keep hidden. Maybe Barristan will just show up in episode 8-9 and say "heh, well, Your Grace, I was here and I thought I could come round to greet you..."

They can get rid of the Whitebeard thing and just have Jorah be jealous of him gaining Dany's favour.

[Peasant Rebel Leader]

They can do the Whitebeard stuff without problems, because the reveal will still be a surprise to Dany (and Jorah). They can't draw it out forever, but it's a nice little arc with reaction shots and dramatic music possible... Also, Jorah and Barristan Selmy create lots of dramatic tension, i.e. Selmy trying to find out wether Jorah is loyal or not and Jorah trying to find out who Selmy actually is. There's a few added scenes in there that we didn't see from Dany's PoV in the books.

I wouldn't read too much into the working title of Autumn Storms, they knew that this title will be public (GRRM's episode working titles have been so far in any case), and it's generic enough that it can mean anything. Now we can place a bit more as we know that it's episode 8, so Queenscrown / Way to the Twins does sound reasonable, but can be totally off nevertheless...

As for the battle for castle black, that would take up a lot of screentime so I guess it should be in season 4. Ygritte can die at Queenscrown from a bite of Summer if they want to close that arc in 2 seasons or they can have her in season 4 after all, it's not that big of a deal.

Edited by Peasant Rebel Leader, 22 August 2012 - 08:08 AM.

[Lannister Hamster]

Peasant Rebel Leader, on 22 August 2012 - 08:06 AM, said:

As for the battle for castle black, that would take up a lot of screentime so I guess it should be in season 4. Ygritte can die at Queenscrown from a bite of Summer if they want to close that arc in 2 seasons or they can have her in season 4 after all, it's not that big of a deal.

I think you lose a lot of the meaning of your death if Jon isn't more directly involved. I advocate that they change it to being his arrow that kills her.

[Peasant Rebel Leader]

Oh, I agree that's possible, and there should be a emotional impact for Jon. I just think there's a dilemma:

1) The battle of castle Black fits better into season 4 (takes up screentime, has big visuals and fighting scenes, etc.)
2) Ygritte's Death, aka the end of Jons arc with the wildlings and trying out something romantic, is a big step in Jons character arc and would fit better at the end of season 3 (close arcs at a season ends)
3) It would be uncharacteristic for Jon to kill Ygritte (on purpose) while fleeing from the wildlings.

So you either have Jon doing something uncharacteristic to end a character arc in the right season, or you drag a character arc out into the next season to have a logical line of events. Or of course, there's a better way to do it. And as I'm not a professional writer, I'm sure there's a way, I just don't see it

Edited by Peasant Rebel Leader, 22 August 2012 - 08:23 AM.

[Lannister Hamster]

Peasant Rebel Leader, on 22 August 2012 - 08:22 AM, said:

Oh, I agree that's possible, and there should be a emotional impact for Jon. I just think there's a dilemma:

1) The battle of castle Black fits better into season 4 (takes up screentime, has big visuals and fighting scenes, etc.)
2) Ygritte's Death, aka the end of Jons arc with the wildlings and trying out something romantic, is a big step in Jons character arc and would fit better at the end of season 3 (close arcs at a season ends)
3) It would be uncharacteristic for Jon to kill Ygritte (on purpose) while fleeing from the wildlings.

So you either have Jon doing something uncharacteristic to end a character arc in the right season, or you drag a character arc out into the next season to have a logical line of events. Or of course, there's a better way to do it. And as I'm not a professional writer, I'm sure there's a way, I just don't see it

Queenscrown ends the season and the Jon finally decides to leave the Wildlings as he refuses to murder the innocent man.

Wildling life and new characters, wildling culture and Jon and Ygritte falling in love is more than enough for a season esp as in a couple of episodes he'll only have one scene or he might be entirely missing in a couple of episodes. I don't think its as much as problem as other people are thinking here.

If the events don't directly interconnect - as in the RW and Castle Black have no connection - character or otherwise, it doesn't actually matter when the events take place chronologically. If I were D&D I'd have no problems having the RW before Queenscrown. It doesnt effect Bran or Jon.

[oierem]

Lannister Hamster, on 22 August 2012 - 08:34 AM, said:

Wildling life and new characters, wildling culture and Jon and Ygritte falling in love is more than enough for a season esp as in a couple of episodes he'll only have one scene or he might be entirely missing in a couple of episodes. I don't think its as much as problem as other people are thinking here.

That's a good example of why I generally disagree with you. For me, that's not enough for a season: that's taking an interesting concept (Jon infiltrating the Wildlings) and streaching it (for a whole year,) until it becomes boring. Wildling life and new characters, yes, but the audience cares about the story, about Jon's determination to remain loyal to the NW, to the threat the wildlings are for the seven Kingdoms...

If you streach that part of the story (only 5 chapters in the book) you kill all the excitment of that plot element; it becomes a mini-series on its own, with characters unrelated to the rest of the storylines and too boring to compete with them (so everytime you cut back to Jon, the audience gets bored because they are invested in the more interesting and eventful storylines).

Instead, if you have the battle at the end of the season you have a good and exciting climax for the storyline that can compete with the rest of the plots happening simultaneously. You have a clear first act (Jon with the wildlings), second act (the mission: Jon has to leave the wildlings and Ygritte) and a third act (the battle of Castle Black), an exciting and eventful storyline, based on character develpment but with enough plot-development as well.

[Jaimeisnotazombie]

Lannister Hamster, on 22 August 2012 - 07:50 AM, said:

They can get rid of the Whitebeard thing and just have Jorah be jealous of him gaining Dany's favour.

They could do that, but whats going to force Barristan to rat out Jorah.

its a double reveal and she sends Jorah to exile.