Why are Sansa's fans so eager to find her a husband?

[UnJoff]

If R+L=J Dany is his aunt, not his cousin.

Thanks for the correction. Double ew for that! Jon marrying his aunt is grody. I digress though. This isn't a Jon thread.

I'm kinda disappointed no one has shipped her with Hodor.

[Queen Cersei I]

If R+L=J then they are cousins just as he would be with Dany so both should be ok or repulsive either way. I think either answer is distatseful just from a story point of view regardless of the kissing cousins angle.

Yeah, but actually, the Jon/ Dany thing grosses me out far less than then the Arya/ Jon, Arya/ Sansa pairings do.

Because while I'm definitely not in favor of aunt/ nephew hookups, I'd say that in this context, with Danerys and Jon roughly the same age, potentially (when they meet) equals in power, equals in intelligence, and total strangers (rather than those who have been raised as close family members), the whole thing wouldn't gross me out that much.

Similarly, though everyone seems to feel that the Jaime/ Cersei thing is the height of depravity, it's never really disturbed me that much, not nearly so much in the way that pairings with Jon and either of his half siblings do. I think it all comes down to what I relate to-- Arya, Sansa, and Jon, from what I've seen of their interactions, seem like normal siblings. They relate to each other in the way that I'd relate to my own siblings. Thus, them growing up and "getting together" would seem perverse, gross.

Meanwhile, Cersei and Jaime are so psychologically out there that it's hard to think of them as anything approaching "typical syblings." They've been attracted to each other since they were small children, and screwing around since infancy. Again, it's not that I condone consensual sibling incest or think that it's okay, it's just that Cersei and Jaime are so unlike any experience i (and, IMO, most others) have had with my siblings that it's hard to even view it in that light.)

Furthermore, since Jon and Dany haven't been raised as family, have never met each other, and are around the same age, for some reason I don't get that instant gag reflex that comes upon me when I hear of people "shipping" Jon and Sansa, or Jon and Arya.

Also, right or wrong, I simply can't get over the feeling that if Jon went for Sansa, he'd really be some sort of sexual predator/ pedo. With Dany, who is much closer to Jon in age, I really wouldn't get that feeling.

Also, one of the most bizarre things with the Sansa/ Jon pairing-- Jon "working out" his issues with Cat by sleeping with a girl who looks like a younger version of her-- is also not there with Danerys.

[ARYa_Nym]

Yes it's like Woody Allen. Only that technically wasn't a foster situation. I feel bad for Mia. I believe it started while the daughter was still underage and then he married her when she was legal.

Victarion did the same thing briefly with an adult Asha but then remembered her as a child then couldn't. It's extremely creepy.

[AsoiafFTW!]

he can be a targaryen but that do not change the fact that they are family (jon and sansa), on the other hand jon and dany maybe share blood, but they ain't family.

[UnJoff]

There are a couple things at issue: blood related family and raised together family. If it is shown Jon is totally unrelated to Sansa, would it be ok for them to wed? Is it ok for Jon to marry his aunt if they weren't raised as family? Which matters more? Is neither acceptable or both ok?

[MeikoElektra]

Getting back to the original question - Why are Sansa's fans so eager to find her a husband...

Firstly, I'm not sure that all the people shipping Sansa are big fans of the character. I find Sansa incredibly naive and frustrating - she certainly wouldn't have been my friend at school! I would have been hanging out with Arya, or (more likely) boys like Podrick and Gendry. Alayne is a completely different kettle of fish, and I've liked seeing Sansa develop as a character, although I don't think I like the person she has become exactly - I'm not a fan of manipulative characters (male or female!) - but at least she now has some agency. Now that we've got that out of the way...

Sansa ships Sansa. She consciously ships herself with Joffrey, Loras and Willas. None of the other characters do that - most are more interested in plotting for power or planning revenge. Through this, she is fulfilling the expectations of the society she lives in (which is very frustrating) - society demands that she marry a man so they can join their houses and promote the interests of both families. However, being the romantic that she is, she also wants to marry someone she loves, and it seems that she thinks she can convince herself she loves them, and she seems blind to the real reason why she has to get married. Alayne, on the other hand, sees clearly that she is expected to marry someone purely for political reasons. I'm hoping she refuses to marry Harry the Heir when it gets to that point (and kills/leaves LF) - but I think it's more likely she'll marry him but use it to her advantage. I do hope that an older, wiser Sansa will be able to return, but Alayne is necessary for her survival (although whether she gets out of all this completely sane remains to be seen - the inheritability of insanity has already been mentioned in relation to the Targaryans, and Lysa Arryn was clearly mad).

And now we get onto her views of Sandor. Her feelings for him are so confused (terror, pity, repulsion, attraction), and that's partially because there's a real duality in Sandor's character (perhaps represented by his half-burned face, or by the man/beast). Roughly half their interactions involve aggressiveness and cruelty on his part, the other half are described as gentle or protective. He's battling between who he thinks he wants to be (the Hound) and who he really wants to be (the wooden knight). Throw in the fact that Sansa must be going through plenty of hormonal change and no wonder she's confused about how she feels for him! So confused she's invented a kiss which she now honestly believes happened, unlike her other fantasies involving Loras and Willas which she realises are just that. As for her kisses with LF, she instinctively represses them once they've happened. She's almost shocked to find that Lysa is angry with her a short while after being kissed (despite being perfectly aware that Lysa would be angry when it happened - as she mentions to LF) and doesn't associate Lysa's anger with the kiss, but with the decapitation of Sweetrobin's doll.

So why do we ship Sansa? Because Sansa wants love. We want Sansa to get what she wants. I don't want Sansa marrying someone for their claim. I'm not even sure I want her to get married (again). I want her to get what she wants. But I also want her to take it, not wait for it to come along. That's why I'm glad she didn't allow Sandor to rescue her at the BBB.

Oh yeah, and it's pretty obvious GRRM's been shipping Sansa and Sandor from the beginning ("get her a dog", not to mention loads of sexual tension, private meetings, secrets shared and regular interactions). GRRM, you romantic, you! :P

[StarkWard]

Little chit's been through enough. But maybe we all want a husband for her, so she can get out of the clutches of that pedo.

[UnJoff]

Little chit's been through enough. But maybe we all want a husband for her, so she can get out of the clutches of that pedo.

Wouldn't by default anyone she marry be a pedo if she's pedo material?

[Quiet Isle]

I think people try to find suitors for Sansa because she seems to be one of the most vulnerable females in the book. Dany, Arya, and the Sand snakes are all quite tough and independent. Margie seems not so innocent. We just want to protect sweet little Sansa. I'd be surprised if she doesnt end up with someone fairly older. She has to have some serious daddy issues.

We won't have to find someone to protect her. She is about to become one of the strongest females in the series. She will ride a dragon. and she's going to kill Gregor/Robert Strong while protecting Sandor. she is going to blow him away, melt him into nothing, with dragonfire. She owes it to Sandor, and she owes it to herself to finally be a woman of strength. We haven't seen her warg yet. but we're going to, imho.

[The Mother of The Others]

Why are Sansa's fans so eager to find her a husband?

For the bedding! The Bedding!

Actually, many Sansites don't want her to marry, so wha'chu talkin' 'bout, OP?

[Kittykatknits]

Actually, many Sansites don't want her to marry, so wha'chu talkin' 'bout, OP?

I asked the same question. From what I see, the expectation that she'll end up married comes from many who aren't all that big fans of hers. Right now, Sansa herself doesn't want to marry. I also think there are some big hints that she'll take a paramour some day.

[Lady Arianne Martell]

As a Sansa fan, I just want to see her happy. I don't care what the means are to that end, as long as the means don't involve her going ala Cersei or some nonsense like that for her character.

Personally, I find her pure femininity refreshing in ASOIAF; most of the females, to me, come across very hard, tough, and such...Sansa is one of the few girl characters, and I really like that she stays true to that. I hope she retains this whilst gaining cunning and such as she loses some of her idealism. I want Sansa to be happy, I really do.

[Kittykatknits]

As a Sansa fan, I just want to see her happy. I don't care what the means are to that end, as long as the means don't involve her going ala Cersei or some nonsense like that for her character.

Personally, I find her pure femininity refreshing in ASOIAF; most of the females, to me, come across very hard, tough, and such...Sansa is one of the few girl characters, and I really like that she stays true to that. I hope she retains this whilst gaining cunning and such as she loses some of her idealism. I want Sansa to be happy, I really do.

I think Sansa is just as tough as the other female characters, just in a different way. But, otherwise, I agree. I just want her to be happy too. It's on my list of must-haves for me to consider ASOIAF a satisfying series when it is completed.

[Lady Arianne Martell]

I think Sansa is just as tough as the other female characters, just in a different way. But, otherwise, I agree. I just want her to be happy too. It's on my list of must-haves for me to consider ASOIAF a satisfying series when it is completed.

When I say tough, I mean it not as in willpower and such but as in personality. Sansa has a very soft personality compared to many of the other women in the series, including Catelyn, Cersei, and Dany. Whilst all of those women show soft sides, they are hard women and have very commanding auras. Sansa is softer and speaks in a much more gentle manner.

So, I agree she is very tough mentally, but I meant more as in that sort of way.

[Booknerd2]

I think I just expect it is going to happen. She will be married and you just hope it is someone decent and you can't wait to find out who it is.

How many times has she been let down with her dream of the knight in shining armor on the pretty white horse?

Has to lead somewhere. Not in the exact package she wanted initially, which I think she matured and knows that now, but...

[Quiet Isle]

I think it could be the readers minds forming subconscious patterns learned from previous experience. I assume many of us have read fantasy other than ASOIAF, which would create an expectation/bias. Actually, all types of literature have examples of certain characters who have tropes associated with them. Sansa is a subversion of the traditional "innocent young heroine" that the protagonist must be deemed worthy of. cross that with the intense vulnerability of the character's position throughout all the books, she can be seen as a "damsel in distress" in need of rescue. In a good deal of fantasy literature, the DiD must be rescued, and by being rescued becomes both the proof of redemption/worthiness of her rescuer, and simultaneously the reward for said proof/worthiness.This creates an expectation in ASOIAF that Sansa must eventually act out her "destiny" as a particular type of character.

GRRM's subversion of this consists of giving the reader no one unambiguously credible or worthy of the Sansa type character. (No, not even Sandor :P ). The reader must make connections that dont necessarily go, the pieces don't fit because they belong to different puzzles.

because it is a subversion (and I agree) of the DiD, it is MY opinion after reading all the books, that Sansa is going to become a GREAT warrior. she's getting stronger and smarter every day. AND it is my opinion that her character arc is going to be SAVING THE HOUND - and it will be by killing Gregor (whom Sandor cannot physically or emotionally do, and CERTAINLY not after Quiet Isle). and she'll do it right before Gregor (RS) kills Sandor - and it will be by dragonfire, with Sansa riding the Cream one IN FULL ARMOR. now THAT'S subversion - and DESTINY.

[lilenadheas]

Yeah, I'd argue that it's not just nasty, but it's so unbelievably, unspeakably nasty that it takes nastiness to a whole new level. Again, consider the logic behind this match:

Jon grew up without a mother. His foster mother, Catelyn Tully, ignored him. In order to find furture happiness, Jon should bang Sansa-- the young girl who looks exactly like his disapproving foster mother. Sansa, who, in case anyone missed it, is also his half sister. As well as his symbolic distant mommy.

So... yeah. I don't know whether this should be called Oedipal; projection; double incest symbolically squared (with the half sister pretending its the fake mother) or what. But I would unhesitatingly call it one thing-- straight up gross.

Wait, I thought you loved Cersei and Jaime together? This isn't as fucked up as that shitstorm of grossness.

I think my sarcasm radar is broken :frown5:

[Gottaluvwolf]

I think a mystery knight will show up, kill Littlefinger and carry her back to Winterfell. When he finally reveals himself it will be...Pod.

[MeikoElektra]

Pod FTW!

[cantharella]

I'm not sure if I'm a fan of Sansa - in the beginning I couldn't get through her POVs and didn't really understand the point of giving the readers opportunity to see inside her empty little head. But she's growing up up and has so much potential.

There is a lot of dark things in aSoIaF - violence, hatred, death. Maybe we just need some great love story? It should of course be unconventional and in keeping with the spirit of the series, so no fairy tale. So if we assume that there should be some love story, who would you see as the most likely candidate? I think it should be Sansa, and in my opinion, Sandor Clegane. I don't "ship" them, but I see this pair as kind of yin-yang and that's what I like about them.

I don't have to have a great big wedding in the epilogue of the last book, but I would love to see two people find each other in the end.