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Theory on Maggy's prophecy and new definition for 'Volanqar'


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This is my first try at this, and i just came up with this looking at the prophecy.

Cersei:''Will the king and i have children?''

Maggy:''Oh, aye. Six-and-ten for him, and three for you.''

Maggy: ''Gold shall be their crowns and gold their shrouds,'' she said. ''And when your tears have drowned you, the volanqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you''

^ I think looking at this chronologically, it implies that all of Cersei's kids will die before the Volanqar kills her. So this could suggest Tommen and Myrcella will soon die, which will surely drown Cersei in tears.

As for the volanqar, it is said to mean little brother, but i think that is a big red herring. I might be over-thinking, but notice how it says 'The volanqar'. Why would Maggy call it 'The Little brother'?

''Gold shall be their crowns and gold their shrouds,'' she said. ''And when your tears have drowned you, the little brother shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you''

it would make much more sense for it to be 'Your little brother', wouldn't it? What is my point? My point is that looking at the whole passage, it makes sense that the volanqar could in fact mean father instead of little brother. In the passage the kids are mentioned, and then 'the volanqar', i think 'the father' would fit in perfectly, after mentioning the kids.

Read it like this. Maggy: ''Gold shall be their crowns and gold their shrouds,'' she said. ''And when your tears have drowned you, the father shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you''

It also makes sense cause before in the same prophecy, Maggy mentions that Robert will have many kids, and Cersei will have three, and then she mentions how the kids will have golden crowns and golden shrouds, but whats missing? The father. The whole part of the prophecy seems to be missing who will be the father to these children. Cersei asked about the children she will have, don't you think Maggy would have found out that her children will actually only be through incest? which is why i'm pretty sure 'The Volanqar' means the father (Jaime) and not little brother, which doesn't fit in the passage at all

How did i do?

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excellent, in my opinion. This could indicate that Cersei will be directly responsible for either Tommen or Myrcella's deaths. We can see that Jaime no longer has love for Cersei but he wouldn't just kill her for no reason. Another way to interpret the prophecy along the same lines you did is that it could mean Stannis, as some have suggested. Since she refers to Robert and Cersei seperately saying "The" valonquar could refers to Roberts little brother, even Aegon or Rickon for that matter. Though I don't see either of those happening.

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excellent, in my opinion. This could indicate that Cersei will be directly responsible for either Tommen or Myrcella's deaths. We can see that Jaime no longer has love for Cersei but he wouldn't just kill her for no reason. Another way to interpret the prophecy along the same lines you did is that it could mean Stannis, as some have suggested. Since she refers to Robert and Cersei seperately saying "The" valonquar could refers to Roberts little brother, even Aegon or Rickon for that matter. Though I don't see either of those happening.

I agree, for all we know it could be any younger brother, though obviously some are more likely than others. I've heard it suggested that the valonquar could be genderless in Valyrian similarly to the word for prince, though I've not seen any evidence for that. Personally, I think that the amount of time Cersei has spent blaming and hating Tyrion because she believes him to the the valonquar almost guarantees that it won't be him. Jaime seems well set up to be such, but I think it would work better if it weren't her little brother.

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Being genderless in Old Valyrian Valonqar could mean Little Sister or Little Sis. Arya. Who, as a Faceless Man (or woman/girl -again they come from Old Valyria so it's really Faceless Person) will use the strangler poison to kill Cersei. She's done it before and it seems like a very common tool for assassination.

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''Gold shall be their crowns and gold their shrouds,'' she said. ''And when your tears have drowned you, the little brother shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you''

it would make much more sense for it to be 'Your little brother', wouldn't it? What is my point? My point is that looking at the whole passage, it makes sense that the volanqar could in fact mean father instead of little brother. In the passage the kids are mentioned, and then 'the volanqar', i think 'the father' would fit in perfectly, after mentioning the kids.

Umm, valonquar means "little brother." That's not in dispute, is it? I don't mean to offend, but this argument is kind of ridiculous. Because the person talking used "the" instead of "your", then the stated definition of the word is completely wrong -- despite absolutely no other evidence for that -- and it really means something completely else? I feel like I am taking crazy pills here. If Maggy had meant "father," she would have used the word for father.

That all said, I think Jaime is likely the valoquar, but in the little brother sense.

If there's any linguistic curiousity to me is why say "little brother" and only that, in Valyrian?

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AAGGGGAAAA

The valonqar is "the younger Brother" in Valyrian.

Who had Valyrian blood? Robert.

Robert was her biggest foe, and she killed him.

Because of they were married, Stannis is her younger brother too.

valongar = Stannis.

I hope so. Assuming that this is the case, I wonder if Cersei would be killed by Stannis himself, by one of Mel's actions or

by the Iron Bank or someone related to them- i.e. by Stannis more indirectly.

I do still think that it might well be another, more unexpected character though I wouldn't speculate as to who right now.

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In AFfC, Genna Lannister, Jaime's Aunt advises him that he is not Tywin's son....that he has some of Kevan in him. Which to me says that Kevan and Joanna did the naughty and she produced the twins Jaime and Cersei.....that would make Lancel the little brother hence the volanqar.....LANCEL will see to Cersei's demise :)

Tywin was big even when he was little.” She gave a sigh. “Who will protect us now?” Jaime kissed her cheek. “He left a son.”

“Aye, he did. That is what I fear the most, in truth.” That was a queer remark. “Why should you fear?” “Jaime,” she said, tugging on his ear, “sweetling, I have known you since you were a babe at Joanna’s breast. You smile like Gerion and fight like Tyg, and there’s some of Kevan in you, else you would not wear that cloak . . . but Tyrion is Tywin’s son, not you. I said so once to your father’s face, and he would not speak to me for half a year. Men are such thundering great fools. Even the sort who come along once in a thousand years.”

Martin, George R.R. (2005-11-08). A Feast for Crows: A Song of Ice and Fire: Book Four (pp. 502-503). Bantam. Kindle Edition.

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In AFfC, Genna Lannister, Jaime's Aunt advises him that he is not Tywin's son....that he has some of Kevan in him. Which to me says that Kevan and Joanna did the naughty and she produced the twins Jaime and Cersei.....that would make Lancel the little brother hence the volanqar.....LANCEL will see to Cersei's demise :)

Tywin was big even when he was little.” She gave a sigh. “Who will protect us now?” Jaime kissed her cheek. “He left a son.”

“Aye, he did. That is what I fear the most, in truth.” That was a queer remark. “Why should you fear?” “Jaime,” she said, tugging on his ear, “sweetling, I have known you since you were a babe at Joanna’s breast. You smile like Gerion and fight like Tyg, and there’s some of Kevan in you, else you would not wear that cloak . . . but Tyrion is Tywin’s son, not you. I said so once to your father’s face, and he would not speak to me for half a year. Men are such thundering great fools. Even the sort who come along once in a thousand years.”

Martin, George R.R. (2005-11-08). A Feast for Crows: A Song of Ice and Fire: Book Four (pp. 502-503). Bantam. Kindle Edition.

Good work for digging up the quote. Personally, I wouldn't take it literally, I think she is simple opining that Jaime has never been the patient, intelligent, strategic and utterly ruthless man that Tywin is, even though he has always tried to be, whereas Tyrion, whom Tywin has always despised, is everything that Tywin is, other than being a dwarf. I don't think she is literally saying that he is Kevan's son, I think she is saying essentially that Tywin always wanted Jaime to grow up to succeed him, and pinned all his hopes on Jaime, but Tyrion is the one with the mind and the temperament, personality and ability to succeed Tywin.

That said, you may be right, but personally, I wouldn't take it literally.

Edited for spelling.

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Good work for digging up the quote. Personally, I wouldn't take it literally, I think she is simple opining that Jaime has never been the patient, intelligent, strategic and utterly ruthless man that Tywin is, even though he was always tried to be, whereas Tyrion, whom Tywin has always despised, is everything that Tywin is, other than being a dwarf. I don't think she is literally saying that he is Kevan's son, I think she is saying essentially that Tywin always wanted Jaime to grow up to succeed him, and pinned all his hopes on Jaime, but Tyrion is the one with the mind and the temperament, personality and ability to succeed Tywin.

That said, you may be right, but personally, I wouldn't take it literally.

]

what he/she said

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I thought that the volanquar could be The Hound.

He served as the personal guard of Joffrey and before that perhaps Cersei? So its like he's almost part of the family. That's a weak connection but if he ends up being the Grave Digger (which come on, he obviously is) then wouldn't he be a brother? A younger brother of the faith? He is working underneath the Elder Brother, so it would make sense to call hima younger brother. Also if Robert Strong is UnGregor and the Hound is going to get revenge couldn't it be in Cersei's trial? We know Robert Strong will be Cersei's champion. So if The Hound is the Champion of The Faith, then he could both kill his brother (which I so want him to do) and by that kill Cersei in the process. Anyone else feel the same way?

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Sorry, but i dont get why there is so much fuzz about the "valonqar". I thought the book was clear about its meaning "Little Brother"...So it could only be either Tyrion or Jaime. I am betting for Jaime :bowdown: it would be a total slap on Cersei's face as she is sure that Tyrion will cast her downfall and at the end it would be Jaime!!! sorry about my english...

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I thought that the volanquar could be The Hound.

He served as the personal guard of Joffrey and before that perhaps Cersei? So its like he's almost part of the family. That's a weak connection but if he ends up being the Grave Digger (which come on, he obviously is) then wouldn't he be a brother? A younger brother of the faith? He is working underneath the Elder Brother, so it would make sense to call hima younger brother. Also if Robert Strong is UnGregor and the Hound is going to get revenge couldn't it be in Cersei's trial? We know Robert Strong will be Cersei's champion. So if The Hound is the Champion of The Faith, then he could both kill his brother (which I so want him to do) and by that kill Cersei in the process. Anyone else feel the same way?

Yes, especially if Cersei's assasins she sent to find Sansa get to her and kill her and the hound finds out. That might make him snap.
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This is my first try at this, and i just came up with this looking at the prophecy.

Cersei:''Will the king and i have children?''

Maggy:''Oh, aye. Six-and-ten for him, and three for you.''

Maggy: ''Gold shall be their crowns and gold their shrouds,'' she said. ''And when your tears have drowned you, the volanqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you''

AAGGGGAAAA

The valonqar is "the younger Brother" in Valyrian.

Who had Valyrian blood? Robert.

Robert was her biggest foe, and she killed him.

Because of they were married, Stannis is her younger brother too.

valongar = Stannis.

I'd like to point out that Maggy the Frog said, "the Valonquar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you." I find it peculiar that people think it is Jaime when GRRM used the plural form after the Bloddy Mummers took his sword hand. The brothers she has with 2 hands are Tyrion and, her brother by marriage, Stannis.

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I'd like to point out that Maggy the Frog said, "the Valonquar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you." I find it peculiar that people think it is Jaime when GRRM used the plural form after the Bloddy Mummers took his sword hand. The brothers she has with 2 hands are Tyrion and, her brother by marriage, Stannis.

And I'd like to point out that Jaime has two hands -- one flesh, and one golden. I missed the part where Maggy the Frog said, "the valonqar shall wrap his two original hands of flesh, not made of gold and definitely neither having been a replacement for a hand cut off, about your pale white throat and choke the life from you."

I'd also like to point out that prophecies aren't guaranteed to come true, either, but but points seem to go over the head of everyone on this board.

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And I'd like to point out that Jaime has two hands -- one flesh, and one golden. I missed the part where Maggy the Frog said, "the valonqar shall wrap his two original hands of flesh, not made of gold and definitely neither having been a replacement for a hand cut off, about your pale white throat and choke the life from you."

I'd also like to point out that prophecies aren't guaranteed to come true, either, but but points seem to go over the head of everyone on this board.

:agree:

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