58 replies to this topic

[The Hungry W0lf]

I have noticed that a lot of the old stories and songs seem to be repeating themselves usually with a twist (not exactly the same as the original tale)

i think a few examples of these are

• Florian and Jonquil = Sansa/Dontos     The twist being Dontos was not a great knight nor fool and Sansa didnt love Dontos.
  
• Manderly=Rat cook The twist being that Manderly never broke any guest rights.
  
• Daenerys = Aegon Both conquored evrywhere they went 3 Dragons twist Daenerys being a girl.

I have some more ill post later any one else got any ?

[King Aemon I]

What? I don't get what you say... Really..

[Gandalf the Grey]

My impression was actually that Samwise Samwell was kinda like Florian the Fool. Give him time, and he might well be the great knight...

Edited by Gandalf the Grey, 08 September 2012 - 07:27 AM.

[Gandalf the Grey]

King Aemon I, on 08 September 2012 - 07:20 AM, said:

What? I don't get what you say... Really..

I think what he means is that a lot of stories from Westerosi culture have manifested themselves in the characters. This being distinct from the idea of a prophecy.


Mance Rayder's inspiration is Bael the Bard, and he sort of tries to copy him a bit there (becoming Abel the Bard). But that's intentional mimicking, as opposed to a story repeating itself.

The Bear and the Maiden Fair can be interpreted a few ways too: Jaime and Brienne, Joran and Dany, Sam and Gilly.

I'll add others as I think of them.

Well, it's a bit of a stretch, but Bran in his own way might be a bit like 'The Winged Knight' from Sweetrobin's favourite story. After all, Bran can fly

The Dance of the Dragons sort of repeats itself. Not just where Targaryen could potentially fight Targaryen, but also the possibility of Myrcella in Dorne being crowned. Arianne Martell, the Queenmaker.

Edited by Gandalf the Grey, 08 September 2012 - 08:00 AM.

[The Hungry W0lf]

Lann the Clever = Littlefinger Littlefinger has taken Harrenhal and the eyrie with only his wits and is making a attempt at Winterfell similar to lann who swindled Casterly Rock

[By the Old Gods Not theNew]

Mance/Abel = Bale the Bard. the name, the cover, the ploy. Mance totally has a Bale the Bard fantasy/complex.

[The Hungry W0lf]

Gandalf the Grey, on 08 September 2012 - 07:34 AM, said:

I think what he means is that a lot of stories from Westerosi culture have manifested themselves in the characters. This being distinct from the idea of a prophecy.


Mance Rayder's inspiration is Bael the Bard, and he sort of tries to copy him a bit there (becoming Abel the Bard). But that's intentional mimicking, as opposed to a story repeating itself.

The Bear and the Maiden Fair can be interpreted a few ways too: Jaime and Brienne, Joran and Dany, Sam and Gilly.

I'll add others as I think of them.

Well, it's a bit of a stretch, but Bran in his own way might be a bit like 'The Winged Knight' from Sweetrobin's favourite story. After all, Bran can fly

The Dance of the Dragons sort of repeats itself. Not just where Targaryen could potentially fight Targaryen, but also the possibility of Myrcella in Dorne being crowned. Arianne Martell, the Queenmaker.

Good one about the Bear and the Maiden Fair i think probably Brianne and Jaime but all 3 fit pretty good.

[Brynda Tully]

I'm not sure I understand why you're saying Lord Manderly hasn't broken any guest rights?

[Alta1r]

Brynda Tully, on 08 September 2012 - 07:33 PM, said:

I'm not sure I understand why you're saying Lord Manderly hasn't broken any guest rights?

He gave the three Freys guest gifts when they left, which I think signifies the end of guest right. So turning them into pies afterwards is legit.

[The Snowman]

Brynda Tully, on 08 September 2012 - 07:33 PM, said:

I'm not sure I understand why you're saying Lord Manderly hasn't broken any guest rights?

The Rat Cook killed his guests then i believe tried to feed them to his other guests...or tried to eat them himself.
It has significance because of deducing what songs Manderly wanted sung at Ramsey/'Arya' wedding at Winterfell and the news that 3 Freys had gone missing on the way to the wedding. Its all about the Red Wedding and how The North Remembers.

Its not a great link but I can see what the OP was saying.


A couple of parallels I can think of are
- Arya Stark and Nymeria the warrior princess of the Rhoynar who helped the Martells conquer Dorne.
- Arya Stark and Lyanna Stark have the same looks, temperament and personality...which is kinda scary if you like Arya because we all know what happened to Lyanna.
- Jon Snow always admired Daeron (?) the young dragon who conquered Dorne so it could mean something.
- Maybe some foreshadowing for Jon as Maester Aemon says "You will have little joy of your command, but I think you have the strength in you to do the things that must be done. Kill the boy, Jon Snow. Winter is almost upon us. Kill the boy and let the man be born". Apart from the whole possible death thing he has going on at the moment Maester Aemon also says something very similar to Aegon the Unlikely before he becomes the King. Kill the boy within you, I told him the day I took ship for the Wall. It takes a man to rule. An Aegon, not an Egg. Kill the boy and let the man be born"


- Denaerys is an obvious one just being a female version of Aegon the Conquerer.
-

[The Hungry W0lf]

The Snowman, on 08 September 2012 - 08:22 PM, said:

The Rat Cook killed his guests then i believe tried to feed them to his other guests...or tried to eat them himself.
It has significance because of deducing what songs Manderly wanted sung at Ramsey/'Arya' wedding at Winterfell and the news that 3 Freys had gone missing on the way to the wedding. Its all about the Red Wedding and how The North Remembers.

Its not a great link but I can see what the OP was saying.


A couple of parallels I can think of are
- Arya Stark and Nymeria the warrior princess of the Rhoynar who helped the Martells conquer Dorne.
- Arya Stark and Lyanna Stark have the same looks, temperament and personality...which is kinda scary if you like Arya because we all know what happened to Lyanna.
- Jon Snow always admired Daeron (?) the young dragon who conquered Dorne so it could mean something.
- Maybe some foreshadowing for Jon as Maester Aemon says "You will have little joy of your command, but I think you have the strength in you to do the things that must be done. Kill the boy, Jon Snow. Winter is almost upon us. Kill the boy and let the man be born". Apart from the whole possible death thing he has going on at the moment Maester Aemon also says something very similar to Aegon the Unlikely before he becomes the King. Kill the boy within you, I told him the day I took ship for the Wall. It takes a man to rule. An Aegon, not an Egg. Kill the boy and let the man be born"


- Denaerys is an obvious one just being a female version of Aegon the Conquerer.
-

I think your right about Jon he has many simile-rarity to the young dragon they both took the throne/ black at 14 and presuming Jon dies died at 18 so does YD.
And both there death involve stewards in YD case killing his steward started the uprising and resulted in his death in Jon case its his steward that actually kills him.
Both ended up uniting more of Westeros YD= Dorne Snow = Free Folk

Edited by The Hungry W0lf, 09 September 2012 - 02:21 AM.

[Black Wolf Smith]

GRRM likes to write parallel stories. Two stories that for a while at least go along the same type archs. They often end up going in different directions.

Jaime and Brienne = Tyrion and Penny- Both found women that they don't like, but because of things they can't control have to travel with her, and then start to care about that women.

Jon and Ygritte = Samwell and Gilly- Both are order to do something they don't want to do, wind up sleeping with a women, even though they did not want to break the vows of the NW

,IMO Ned = Robb-, have to Rebel against a crazy king or die, after losing most of their familly, alone in a distant kingdom, find comfort in the arms of a women.

Brynda Tully, on 08 September 2012 - 07:33 PM, said:

I'm not sure I understand why you're saying Lord Manderly hasn't broken any guest rights?

He wasn't! With the Freys at WH, he gave them gifts, and they were no longer his guest ( I also don't think he killed them, one of his friends did) and at WF, he knows FArya, is fake so no Starks, brought his own food so he isn't Boltons guest, serverd Freys Pies to Freys but did not kill them in WF, which isn't his any way.

Edited by Black Wolf Smith, 09 September 2012 - 02:29 AM.

[Gandalf the Grey]

I was under impression that they were killed (obviously under Manderly's order) when they had just left White Harbour and on the way to Winterfell. Technically not violating guest rights, not that I think that means much to Manderly. As long as they are seen leaving White Harbour, it can slightly divert suspicion.

[Fire Eater]

Jaime = Aemon the Dragonknight- in love with sister who married a king, member of the KG who was an unrivaled swordsman, rumoured to have fathered the crown prince

Robb Stark the Young Wolf = Daeron the Young Dragon- used paths around fortifications to invade territories, both started at 14 and died young without issue and their conquests died with them

Stannis = Night's King (fire version)- coupled with woman who was akin to fire, he gave his soul to her when he did couple, King who made the Nightfort is his seat and Mel binds men to her through sorcery (with Mance), and finally makes sacrifices to fire god while the Night's King sacrificed to the Others

Edited by Fire Eater, 09 September 2012 - 03:56 AM.

[Black Wolf Smith]

Fire Eater, on 09 September 2012 - 03:25 AM, said:

Jaime = Aemon the Dragonknight- in love with sister who married a king, member of the KG who was an unrivaled swordsman

Robb Stark the Young Wolf = Daeron the Young Dragon- used paths around fortifications to invade territories, both died young without issue and their conquests died with them

Stannis = Night's King (fire version)- coupled with woman who was akin to fire, he gave his soul to her when he did couple and she bound men to her, King who made the Nightfort is his seat and Mel binds men to her through sorcery (with Mance), and finally makes sacrifices to fire god while the Night's King sacrificed to the Others

I like all of those.I was trying to remember the Robb one, but had not put the other two together.  there are lots of them in aSoIaF.

[Leto]

Gandalf the Grey, on 08 September 2012 - 07:34 AM, said:

The Bear and the Maiden Fair can be interpreted a few ways too: Jaime and Brienne, Joran and Dany, Sam and Gilly.

The bear = Alysane mormont
The maiden is fair = Roose Bolton

Roose is in for a treat after the defeat at winterfell

[Gandalf the Grey]

Leto, on 09 September 2012 - 03:39 AM, said:

The bear = Alysane mormont
The maiden is fair = Roose Bolton

Roose is in for a treat after the defeat at winterfell

Alysane will lick the honey from Roose's hair? I'm confused

[Leto]

Gandalf the Grey, on 09 September 2012 - 03:42 AM, said:

Alysane will lick the honey from Roose's hair? I'm confused

Something along those line, but less playfull..

After all the Bolton fake aryas. locked up tower-wives and colourful weddings, I just get the sense that Roose had earned himself a proper wedding himself. And who better to administer it than the Stark loyalist She-bear?

Don't worry, I don't actually believe that myself

Edited by Leto, 09 September 2012 - 04:48 AM.

[The Hungry W0lf]

Fire Eater, on 09 September 2012 - 03:25 AM, said:

Jaime = Aemon the Dragonknight- in love with sister who married a king, member of the KG who was an unrivaled swordsman, rumoured to have fathered the crown prince

Robb Stark the Young Wolf = Daeron the Young Dragon- used paths around fortifications to invade territories, both started at 14 and died young without issue and their conquests died with them

Stannis = Night's King (fire version)- coupled with woman who was akin to fire, he gave his soul to her when he did couple, King who made the Nightfort is his seat and Mel binds men to her through sorcery (with Mance), and finally makes sacrifices to fire god while the Night's King sacrificed to the Others

If Jamie is the dragon knight could the Kettlebacks be playing the part of the Toynes
There are 3 Toynes 1 of with is a Kingsguard same as Kettlebacks makes me wonder if one of the Kettlback will die because of Cersei trial perhaps and the other two come for either Cersei or Tommen

[Gandalf the Grey]

The Hungry W0lf, on 09 September 2012 - 05:54 AM, said:

If Jamie is the dragon knight could the Kettlebacks be playing the part of the Toynes
There are 3 Toynes 1 of with is a Kingsguard same as Kettlebacks makes me wonder if one of the Kettlback will die because of Cersei trial perhaps and the other two come for either Cersei or Tommen

I think it's highly unlikely that the Kettleback being locked up by the High Sparrow (I forget his first name) will make it out of the next book alive.