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The Silmarillion-Very Dark Story


SerMixalot

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Ok, been a Tolkien fan for many many years. Finally getting around to reading the Simarillion. My previous attempts seemed to founder on the heavy prose and names and such.

But darned, this is one dark story.

I was shocked when I got around to the Turin and Nienor. I mean killing one's best friend is one thing, but marrying and empregnating your sister!?!?! WOW.

Ok perhaps not to today's sensibilities, but we are talking about Mr. Tolkien writing this stuff back in the 20's -50's or so IIRC.

Ok, yes there have been such stories through history, maybe? perhaps the bible

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Ok, yes there have been such stories through history, maybe? perhaps the bible

This type of tragic incest has lots of parallels in world mythology: Arthur and Morgan le Fay, Oedipus and Jocasta, Sigmund and Signy, Kullervo and his sister. Tolkien mentioned the last three as influences on Turin:

There is the
Children of Húrin
, the tragic tale of Túrin Turambar and his sister Níniel – of which Túrin is the hero: a figure that might be said (by people who like that sort of thing, though it is not very useful) to be derived from elements in Sigurd the Volsung, Oedipus, and the Finnish Kullervo.

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This is why, when people cite GRRM, Morgan and Abercrombie as being 'darker' than Tolkien, all it takes is a quick read of The Silmarillion to say, "Really?"

Good point, but you have to admit that when most people are saying that, they're referring to LOTR. I wonder what the ratio is of people who have read only LoTR/Hobbit to those who have read those + any/all of Sil/UT/HoME. I'm guessing the ratio is very high.

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The Silmarillion would make for some great movies. >_>

But yeah, even LotR is by no means a bright and breezy book (even without The Scouring of the Shire). And while sure, it isn't as grim and gritty as Bakker and Abercrombie, it's (in tone at least) definitely sadder. In the unhappy sense, not the loser sense.

The impeding doom of the Apocalypse of his precious Bible obviously taint his grand work.

You make out like the entire Bible is about 'the impending doom of the Apocalypse'. And even Revelations, the only part really entirely dedicated to that, is in the end after all the plagues and suffering probably more hopeful than large parts of the Middle-Earth oeuvre.

I think it's more fighting in WWI that paints his work with the melancholia it has.

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Good point, but you have to admit that when most people are saying that, they're referring to LOTR.

I actually think many people who label Tolkien as 'light' have only seen Jackson's film, rather than read the book (the film is lighter). LOTR features orcs flinging catapaulted heads, an attempted murder-suicide, the Dead Marshes, and has the hero come back a shell-shocked veteran (arguably a fate worse than death). Plus there's the Scouring.

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Noldorim, once offending the Gods, are bound to fail against evil. And their whole race is anyway destined to dwell off the world anyway, and the world won't be that beautiful yada yada that it was before. Add atop of that, anything goes according the grand scheme of God.

Not sure if I want to accuse of of never reading Tolkien, never reading the Bible, or both.

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A film class I took did like a 3 week unit on the catholicism present in tolkien's works. We didn't do much of the silmarillion, but the parts involving it were probably the most fun. Was an interesting class.

That said, I enjoyed the Silmarillion when I read it, but it's not something I would reread all that soon.

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Its Revelation. There's no such thing as The Book of Revelations.

i usually go with the apocalypse of st. john, rather than some variant of revelation.

not seeing what's so "dark" about the silmarillion. sure, the lamps get knocked out, but there's trees. they get cut down, but there's the jewels. they get stolen, but they're recovered. and then they're lost, but there's also the convenient astronomical thingies. sure, those thingies get destroyed in the dagor dagorath, but turin and eonwe and huan and whoever else win in the end, and get to fix the trees and bring back feanor and so on. see? happy ending, and at no extra cost!

.

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i usually go with the apocalypse of st. john, rather than some variant of revelation.

not seeing what's so "dark" about the silmarillion. sure, the lamps get knoecked out, but there's trees. they get cut down, but there's the jewels. they get stolen, but they're recovered. and then they're lost, but there's also the convenient astronomical thingies. sure, those thingies get destroyed in the dagor dagorath, but turin and eonwe and huan and whoever else win in the end, and get to fix the trees and bring back feanor and so on. see? happy ending, and at no extra cost!

.

The rise and fall of Morgoth , The death of Fingolfin the destruction of Numinor through due to the manipulations Morgoth's lacky Sauron. The wars of the second age? Dark and apocalyptic.

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