Dragon in Winterfell - What does this mean?

[Boromir-Bloodstorm]

The smoke and ash clouded his eyes, and in the sky he saw a great winged snake whose roar was a river of flame. He bared his teeth, but then the snake was gone.

Bran saw this through Summer's eyes in the final chapter of Clash of Kings. What does it mean?

Is it a metaphor, or is this the mysterious stone dragon in the prophecies? Is it real? Is it out there somewhere? A dragon that lived buried in Winterfel and was released by the fire?

Any ideas?

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

I don't know what to make of this. I don't know if it's meant to be antagonistic, or if it's meant to tie into the "Ice Dragon" symbolism. I would posit that Jon himself is the "Ice Dragon," if there is an actual symbolic "Ice Dragon." But I'm not sure if that's meant to be the same as the creature that Bran sees.

I do think it's probably symbolic, though, whatever it's supposed to be.

[Mumatil]

I just hope its not a greyscale dragon, that would suck.....

Also it probably couldn't fly

[FittleLinger]

I honestly think it was the comet, but I know if I say the show is one of my main points toward this, I will get a big "Boo". Anyway, in one of Bran's few wolf dreams depicted in the show, he is outside WF and takes a really emphasized look at the comet.

Also, when Martin was asked about this, he said something like - well it's your interpretation how an animal interprets stuff. So I'm guessing just like wolves see swords as iron claws etc, he didn't saw a literal winged snake (which is pretty much how a human would describe a dragon), but the comet.

That's my take anyway.

[7V3N]

My first thought was the comet, but Osha (IIRC) says that something was loud enough to wake a dragon. I think it was referring to the noise of Winterfell being destroyed. And the comet would not vanish from Summer's view either. It certainly hints dragon.

ETA: OP, you may want to include spoiler tags in the title.

[msheafer33]

I honestly think it was the comet [...]

No. Doesn't fit. The comet would not have just disappeared.

Also, when Martin was asked about this, he said something like - well it's your interpretation how an animal interprets stuff.

That's just him trying to be non-committal. It means nothing either way.

[FittleLinger]

No. Doesn't fit. The comet would not have just disappeared.

That's just him trying to be non-committal. It means nothing either way.

Behind the cliffs tall fires were eating up the stars.

That's how the dream ends. The comet might have been hidden by flames, smoke, clouds, or trees.

About the second part - he basically said to bear in mind that wolves don't have the same perception as men. I think it's relevant.

[msheafer33]

Behind the cliffs tall fires were eating up the stars.

That's how the dream ends.

A weak explanation. The winged snake disappears in the time it takes for the Wolf to bear its teeth.

A comet does not have wings. A comet does not roar. A comet's roar does not appear to be accompanied by a river of flame. The comet itself might look like a river of flame, but how would the wolf distinguish the comet itself, from the comet's wings, from the river of flame which is its "roar", which presumably means it is spouting from the comet's mouth? The description is far too specific and multi-faceted to match a mere comet, which is nothing more than a simple red streak in the sky.

If you want to speculate that the Wolf misinterpreted what it saw, be my guest. But, if you're going to do that, you might as well speculate that what it saw was a sickle moon. Even better would be a.burning tree branch, which might at least have enough different features to explain all the distinct elements of the vision.

The comet might have been hidden by flames, smoke, clouds, or trees.

Which makes it hard to credit that the Wolf would have noticed it at all. A wolf doesn't howl at the moon when he's in the presence of a forest fire.

About the second part - he basically said to bear in mind that wolves don't have the same perception as men. I think it's relevant.

Sounds to me like he is merely refusing to confirm or deny. Sort of like "I have placed the clues, but its up to you want to say 'you can't trust an animal'; and thereby choose to miss the clues."

[Dornish Whine]

Many think that it is just metaphorical imagery - a way of describing the smoke and fire pouring out of Winterfell. I tend to agree. It is an overly specific description, which leads people to wonder. However, if it were an actual dragon we would have heard more about it by now ; forests on fire, livestock being taken, small folk spotting it in the skies, etc...

[msheafer33]

Many think that it is just metaphorical imagery - a way of describing the smoke and fire pouring out of Winterfell. I tend to agree.

I don't really buy that explanation. But it is at least more plausible explanation than the comet. Fire, at least, can change and move quickly, and take a variety of shapes and forms.

However, if it were an actual dragon we would have heard more about it by now ; forests on fire, livestock being taken, small folk spotting it in the skies, etc...

Why would we have heard of it? Westeros is a big place, surrounded by countless islands. We have less than 2 dozen POVs, not 3 million POVs. A dozen villages filled with smallfolk could see a dragon and we would not necessarily hear of it. Or do you think they would all whip out their digital cameras, and post the resulting photos on the internet, thereby making the news instantly available from White Harbor to King's Landing to Oldtown to Slaver's Bay.

I am also intrigued by the possibility that some dragons are capable of intelligent behavior, and can keep a low profile when they choose. Tyrion referred to legends of dragons that speak, and, though Tyrion himself does not believe the legends, I suspect GRRM threw out this detail deliberately as foreshadowing of developments to come.

[CJ McLannister]

I prefer to take it as more of a prophetic/symbolic vision than an actual dragon.

I don't know if that's because I don't believe there are dragons at Winterfell, or if I just don't want to believe that.

[msheafer33]

I prefer to take it as more of a prophetic/symbolic vision than an actual dragon.

Bran has prophetic-vision-dreams and he has wolf-dreams. Context clearly indicates this is a wolf-dream. He is seeing through the eyes of his wolf.

You can postulate, if you like, that he is seeing through the eyes of his wolf, while his wolf has a prophetic vision. But that seems far too elaborate and far-fetched to me. An author should not be THAT tricky with his reader.

And, even if we go with this idea, it only begs the following question: What is the significant or purpose of the prophetic vision?

I don't know if that's because I don't believe there are dragons at Winterfell, or if I just don't want to believe that.

I don't know either. The fairest reading of the evidence is that Bran is seeing through the eyes of his wolf, and his wolf just saw a dragon. But I see similar reactions from alot ASOIAF fans.

Many others are extremely hostile to the whole Zombie Apocalypse theme, which makes me wonder why they bothered reading past the prologue of book 1.

[CJ McLannister]

I just feel like Bran doesn't think it's really a dragon, or at least doesn't seem all that concerned about it.

[7V3N]

In regards to prophetic wolf dreams: Jon has one where he sees a tree-Bran through Ghost IIRC. I believe that is the only occurrence. I do not think this is one of those, but we cannot rule it out.

[Tagganaro]

Why would we have heard of it? Westeros is a big place, surrounded by countless islands. We have less than 2 dozen POVs, not 3 million POVs. A dozen villages filled with smallfolk could see a dragon and we would not necessarily hear of it. Or do you think they would all whip out their digital cameras, and post the resulting photos on the internet, thereby making the news instantly available from White Harbor to King's Landing to Oldtown to Slaver's Bay.

I have to disagree...If a fully grown or even baby Dragon is flying through the sky over countless villages and holdfasts, there would at the very least be accompanying gossip and tales. The fact that Varys and others hear rumors of Dragons on a different continent speaks to the fact that this is not an event that would go unnoticed or unremarked on. It's difficult to miss a huge flying creature blotting out the Sun above, especially when the creature would most likely have to of passed over several villages along the way to it's destination.

If you couldn't tell from this, I believe the vision is Summer the wolf interpreting either smoke from burning buildings or the comet itself, not an actual dragon. However, I would not be surprised if this "vision" has prophetic connotations to some kind of "Dragon" being able to be woken in Winterfell, in connection with Osha's off-handed aside bout making enough noise to wake a Dragon.

[7V3N]

I have to disagree...If a fully grown or even baby Dragon is flying through the sky over countless villages and holdfasts, there would at the very least be accompanying gossip and tales. The fact that Varys and others hear rumors of Dragons on a different continent speaks to the fact that this is not an event that would go unnoticed or unremarked on. It's difficult to miss a huge flying creature blotting out the Sun above, especially when the creature would most likely have to of passed over several villages along the way to it's destination.

If you couldn't tell from this, I believe the vision is Summer the wolf interpreting either smoke from burning buildings or the comet itself, not an actual dragon. However, I would not be surprised if this "vision" has prophetic connotations to some kind of "Dragon" being able to be woken in Winterfell, in connection with Osha's off-handed aside bout making enough noise to wake a Dragon.

Yes, bu Dany is also advertising her dragons for political gain. That is different from a dragon on its own in the snowy disarrayed North. Most of the North is in the South fighting for Robb. Lady Glover has so few men that she ransoms off the ironmen to the Iron Banker.

[Lady Flandrensis]

I take this at face value, that Summer saw a dragon. What dragon, where it came from, who knows? More will be revealed.

[msheafer33]

I have to disagree...If a fully grown or even baby Dragon is flying through the sky over countless villages and holdfasts, there would at the very least be accompanying gossip and tales.

(1) Why have we suddenly escalated to "countless" villages? Even assuming the dragon does not deliberately avoid human contact, it is possible that there are only a limited number of villages - or none - in its hunting range. Isn't Winterfell on the border of a giant forest?

(2) There could be plenty of accompanying gossip and tales, without any of it necessarily reaching the ears of one of the 24 POV characters.

The fact that Varys and others hear rumors of Dragons on a different continent speaks to the fact that this is not an event that would go unnoticed or unremarked on.

Varys remarked on them only because he heard ALOT of such rumors. Context clearly indicates that if he had heard only one or two such rumors, he would have dismissed them.

[msheafer33]

Yes, bu Dany is also advertising her dragons for political gain. That is different from a dragon on its own in the snowy disarrayed North. Most of the North is in the South fighting for Robb. Lady Glover has so few men that she ransoms off the ironmen to the Iron Banker.

Absolutely. Apart from the advertisement aspect, there is a huge difference between 3 dragons living in a large coastal city, and occasionally snacking on the inhabitants, and which is a jumping-off point for sailors to spread the word to every port, and 1 dragon living in the snowy wilderness, being occasionally glimpsed by a shepherd or a wildman.

[Gar Weg Wun Sygerrik]

he basically said to bear in mind that wolves don't have the same perception as men. I think it's relevant.

I take this to mean : This is why he does not say "hey look a dragon in the air!". Summer knows what serpents are, and knows what wings are, and this is how he describes a dragon.