45 replies to this topic

[Frey Pie]

Interesting to note that George has yet to offer any Samwel chapters. I think something big is going on in the citadel. Too big for George to give away a spoiler chapter even. Is Alleras Sarella, the sandsnake? It seems likely because of the name, personalities etc. Now why is she there?

The fact that shes there points me towards a possible plot of Dorne being in cahoots with the Hightowers. I believe both will join Aegons side, mirroring Aegon the Conquerors support from Oldtown. We know that Lord Hightower is supposedly stuck in his tower and wont come down. Wyman Manderly was supposedly the same and we all know how wrong that was. Hes almost certainly up to something.

In Greek tradition the face of a sphinx was female. In egyptian, male. This really seals the deal if Alleras=Sarella for me.

Now Maester Aemon says the sphinx is the riddle, not the riddler. Is Alleras the sphinx Aemon was talking about? It seems like a bit of a coincidence. Now IIRC, Aemon was talking about Daenerys and the prince that was promised. This was all when he was dieing and not in the right frame of mind. But what does the sphinx have to do with TPTWP?

And if the sphinx (Alleras) is the riddle, then who is the riddler? Marwyn? The Citadel? Doran? Aegon?

Edited by Frey Pie, 18 September 2012 - 08:28 AM.

[Ravishing Rickon Rude]

Also, how would Aemon have known of the existence of Alleras as the Sphinx? Was he getting secret communications from Maesters in Oldtown who are not part of the grand Maester conspiracy?

[Frey Pie]

Oh thank god a reply! I forgot how slow other threads were compared to the general. Rickon its quite possible its something to do with the Maester conspiracy. Alleras mentions that Aemon was the oldest known man in Westeros so he definately knows of him. Theres also his being part of the Marwyn gang

However, is it possible that there is some part of the PTWP prophecy that mentions a sphinx? If so then this makes things very interesting at the citadel. The entrance to the citadel is also a sphinx if im not mistaken so is Aemon ralking about a person, or a place?

[andrew_]

hmm whatever is going on in oldtown, expect jaqen h'gar/pate to spoil the party, he's gonna be a big player in the books to come i reckon

[Ciazio]

Frey Pie, on 17 September 2012 - 12:12 PM, said:

In Greek tradition the face of a sphinx was female. In egyptian, male. This really seals the deal if Alleras=Sarella for me.

And if the sphinx (Alleras) is the riddle, then who is the riddler? Marwyn? The Citadel? Doran? Aegon?

I think that you answered yourself: the sphinx (half male, half female) isn't someone who poses riddles, but a riddle itself: is it a woman or a man? Is the PTWP a man or a woman?

Anyway I'm quite sure that Alleras is Sarella: Doran himslef told something about her "mad habits and desires" (to act like a man and become a maester). Moreover, this very sentence makes me doubt about Doran's connection with the Citadel and Oldtown: he doesn't approve Sarella's choice.

That obviously leaves intact the possibilities of a connection between Alleras, Marwyn and Aemon and of Doran's move toward Hightower via Sarella.

Sidenote... the whole Sarella/Alleras thing makes me think about the Brave Danny Flint tale... Is Sarella going toward a similar fate?

Edited by Ciazio, 18 September 2012 - 10:51 AM.

[CJDTrismegistus]

Description of the entrance.

"The gates of the citadel were flanked by a pair of towering green sphinxes with the bodies of lions, the wings of eagles, and the tails of serpents.  One had a man's face, one a woman's."

Bodies of lions - Lannister?
Wings of Eagles - Arryn?
Tails of serpents - Martell?

[Frey Pie]

Ciazio, on 18 September 2012 - 10:51 AM, said:

I think that you answered yourself: the sphinx (half male, half female) isn't someone who poses riddles, but a riddle itself: is it a woman or a man? Is the PTWP a man or a woman?

Anyway I'm quite sure that Alleras is Sarella: Doran himslef told something about her "mad habits and desires" (to act like a man and become a maester). Moreover, this very sentence makes me doubt about Doran's connection with the Citadel and Oldtown: he doesn't approve Sarella's choice.

That obviously leaves intact the possibilities of a connection between Alleras, Marwyn and Aemon and of Doran's move toward Hightower via Sarella.

Sidenote... the whole Sarella/Alleras thing makes me think about the Brave Danny Flint tale... Is Sarella going toward a similar fate?

Interesting. So is the sphinx Aemon talks about, connected to Sarella sphinx in that George is letting us know the PTWP can be male or female, by showing us the Sarella/Alleras identity? Makes sense when one remembers that the Valyrian for dragon is neither male nor female

Wether Doran sent her or not, i can see him knowing where she is, and so using her as an agent. In any case she will let Doran know of anything of import

[Lord Liam DarkStark]

They did say sarella was on her own mission, I agree that alleras is most likely sarella. What her purpose is I don't know. Knowdege and maybe something to do with the citadel's secrets. I mean she/he was one of the students in league with marywn. He is the direct one that collected sam and brought him to marwyn and he/she also knows much of the prophecy. Hence why she was never shocked through the whole story sam told.

[Independent George]

Sarella seems to be in Oldtown for her own purposes, not Doran's. I believe Arianne refers to her as 'playing her own game', and that she loves Oldtown the way Obara hates it.

[SerLoin]

I think it was pretty clear that Aemon had the "targaryen dreaming" ability.  He was seeing the future.  In his deathrows he was just trying to tell Sam as much as he could before he passed beyond the veil.  Most likely he saw "the sphinx" in one of his dreams.  We know that usually those dreams don't turn out well for our POV characters.

[SerLoin]

IIRC Doran said to Areo Hotah , "Let her play her game".  The comparison to Danny Flint is a good one.  Lets hope she gets out before someone figures out her game.

[Theon's Knuckle]

First Time post, long time reader.

IMO, when I read Doran's reply to Hotah about letting Sarllea be for the moment, I took that as Doran has her well placed to do any number of things.  The way things are going, she could quite possibly be set to reign havoc in OldTown.  We know of 3 sand snakes that are deadly, we don't yet know the worth of Sallera (meaning how deadly she really is,   )   Her "game" could get quite interesting.

[Lord Liam DarkStark]

She uses the bow. That's her weapon. All sand snakes have a weapon or deadly skill.
I really like sarella I hope she doesn't have as sad a story as danny flint though

[Frey Pie]

I just feel there is a link in here somewhere. I know this is the subject we know least about IMO-whats going to happen in the citadel

[SerLoin]

The Maesters are also known as the grey sheep....any prophesies out there concerning sheep?

[Matt O'Sevens]

Ravishing Rickon Rude, on 18 September 2012 - 10:23 AM, said:

Also, how would Aemon have known of the existence of Alleras as the Sphinx? Was he getting secret communications from Maesters in Oldtown who are not part of the grand Maester conspiracy?

He almost certainly wasn't having any secret correspondences with the Maesters at the Citadel...I don't think we will ever know how or why Aemon said the things he did, I believe GRRM wanted it to appear cryptic, or mysterious in its origins, so that the reader would wonder how he knew those things. Was Aemon having visions of the past? The present? The future? Or were those words just randomly spilling out of his mouth, and he (Aemon) had no idea what he was saying? Either way, you can bet that it has to do with something, or someone important.

[Matt O'Sevens]

SerLoin, on 18 September 2012 - 07:15 PM, said:

The Maesters are also known as the grey sheep....any prophesies out there concerning sheep?

None that I can recall

[Lord Liam DarkStark]

Matt O, on 18 September 2012 - 11:58 PM, said:

He almost certainly wasn't having any secret correspondences with the Maesters at the Citadel...I don't think we will ever know how or why Aemon said the things he did, I believe GRRM wanted it to appear cryptic, or mysterious in its origins, so that the reader would wonder how he knew those things. Was Aemon having visions of the past? The present? The future? Or were those words just randomly spilling out of his mouth, and he (Aemon) had no idea what he was saying? Either way, you can bet that it has to do with something, or someone important.

Your forgetting the glass candle. I think its clear marwyn was visiting aemon's dreams. Like the sorcerers of valyria of old, they would place ideas into peoples dreams.that's why marywn already knew everything sam said.

[Bayard]

It might be as simple as Sarella wanting to become the maester of Sunspear... at the moment Doran doesn't trust his maester. And most lords don't trust their maesters, Luwin was only an exception... after she makes all her links she will reveal she is a woman and return to Dorne and become the maester of the Martells. At least I think that was her original plan... before meeting Marwyn

[Ciazio]

Bayard, on 19 September 2012 - 09:57 AM, said:

It might be as simple as Sarella wanting to become the maester of Sunspear... at the moment Doran doesn't trust his maester. And most lords don't trust their maesters, Luwin was only an exception... after she makes all her links she will reveal she is a woman and return to Dorne and become the maester of the Martells. At least I think that was her original plan... before meeting Marwyn

Doran is not part of her plans... He doesn't approve her will to become a maester. He might use her, but not support her.

Maybe she wanted to become Sunspear's maester, but I highly doubt that the Citadel would have let her go to serve at home. Moreover they would have broke her chain as soon as they discovered she was a woman.

......Brave Danny Flint...... Sarella is rushing to a bad end.