45 replies to this topic

[oprahnoodlemantra]

I think there's going to be a huge battle in Oldtown, probably when the Ironborn invade. Maybe Sarella and "Pate" will help Sam safely escape.

Edited by oprahnoodlemantra, 19 September 2012 - 11:26 AM.

[Lord Liam DarkStark]

Pate may kill sam yet. Who knows haha.

[Fire Eater]

Sam needs help honing his archery skills I recall, maybe Alleras will help him with that.

If Sam finds himself fighting for his life against Jaqen, Alleras may come to the rescue as well as uncover the Citadel's conspiracy with him while they're in the secret underground vault.

oprahnoodlemantra, on 19 September 2012 - 11:25 AM, said:

I think there's going to be a huge battle in Oldtown, probably when the Ironborn invade. Maybe Sarella and "Pate" will help Sam safely escape.

Or Sam puts Sarella's teachings to use and puts an arrow through Euron's remaining eye, the eye of Crow's Eye taken out by a crow, how ironic.

Edited by Fire Eater, 19 September 2012 - 01:08 PM.

[CJDTrismegistus]

I think Jaqen's at the Citadel to get a dragon book for Euron, maybe The Fires of the Freehold, of which Tyrion mentions as a good source of information regarding dragons.

It has been suggested that Jaqen is the Assassin that kills Balon so it is also quite likely that he is still under Euron's instruction at the Citadel.

[Lord Liam DarkStark]

He definitely wants the death of dragons the blood soaked tomes blood and fire.
The fires of the freehold is an incomplete copy and can be found elsewhere in essos. The death of dragons is the only surviving copy

[CJDTrismegistus]

liam stark, on 19 September 2012 - 01:46 PM, said:

He definitely wants the death of dragons the blood soaked tomes blood and fire.
The fires of the freehold is an incomplete copy and can be found elsewhere in essos. The death of dragons is the only surviving copy

I see. I was looking for the book that only the citadel had but all I could find was the Fires of the Freehold. Although I don't think Euron would want to kill the dragons, I'm sure he would rather have a book that helped him control them. Would the Death of Dragons book help him do that?

[Lord Liam DarkStark]

CJDTrismegistus, on 20 September 2012 - 07:42 AM, said:

I see. I was looking for the book that only the citadel had but all I could find was the Fires of the Freehold. Although I don't think Euron would want to kill the dragons, I'm sure he would rather have a book that helped him control them. Would the Death of Dragons book help him do that?

Yes I believe it possibly would cause we learn about this book from tyrion. And he wouldn't want to kill them either. I think this book has the most reliable information of dragons since it was written by the people who used them. It could be a sort of instruction manual though on how to deystroy dragons though. But I think it would have more to it than just killing them.

[Lord Liam DarkStark]

But I don't think euron used an assasin to kill balon. I think he used sorcery. When the little woods witch/cotf from high heart gives the vision of balon falling to his death she says a one eyed crow was perched on his shoulder. So euron caused the death we know that. But along with mel's influence with the blood filled leaches and euron also working on balon's death, the death was granted same as rob's and joff's.

[Lord Liam DarkStark]

Plus jaqen was traveling from harrenhal to the citadel at this time.

[OberynBlackfyre]

this is really interesting, as I never really gave thought to the sphinx at all.  However it all rings true that it would point to Sarella, especially since Aemon said "The Sphinx is the riddle, not the riddler".  I think this is GRRM kind of saying that she is under no ones command, nor is she part of any scheme except her own.  Something amiss is going on in Oldtown though, and it's unclear why all the players are there.  Clearly they have knowledge of whats going on everywhere, but I feel like it's unclear to whose "side" they are on.  We know that the culmination of the books is "a song of ice and fire", which I think means that people are inadvertently agents of something much much bigger than them, also without their knowledge.  I'd say the Dragons and God of Light have to be the fire (which has its positives and negatives obviously) to where the wall, the others, and children of the forest are the ice (which also has its positive and negatives), the question is, who is working for what?

[CJDTrismegistus]

liam stark, on 20 September 2012 - 01:38 PM, said:

But I don't think euron used an assasin to kill balon. I think he used sorcery. When the little woods witch/cotf from high heart gives the vision of balon falling to his death she says a one eyed crow was perched on his shoulder. So euron caused the death we know that. But along with mel's influence with the blood filled leaches and euron also working on balon's death, the death was granted same as rob's and joff's.

The woods witch - "I dreamt of a man without a face, waiting on a bridge that swayed and swung.  On his shoulder perched a drowned crow with seaweed hanging from his wings."

I think the line "a man without a face", clearly refers to a Faceless Man.  Whether or not this is Jaqen Hagar remains to be seen, as there could be two Faceless Men operating in Westeros.  I'll have to check more closely the timings of the events to see if it were possible to nip up to Pyke before travelling to Oldtown.

I think Melisandre probably saw the deaths of the other kings in her flames and used this to her avantage, making it look like she could use Edric Storm's blood to peform powerful sorcery.  Her ultimate goal was to convince Stannis that sacrificing Eddy Storm would wake the stone dragon.

The thing is though, if Euron is using Jaqen Hagar, is Jaqen Hagar still a Faceless Man?  Instead of referencing the "Many Faced God", Jaqen dedicates his kills to the "Red God".  Could he be Euron's personal secret agent?  Kind of a 007, licensed to take your face!

[Lord Liam DarkStark]

CJDTrismegistus, on 21 September 2012 - 12:25 PM, said:

The woods witch - "I dreamt of a man without a face, waiting on a bridge that swayed and swung.  On his shoulder perched a drowned crow with seaweed hanging from his wings."

I think the line "a man without a face", clearly refers to a Faceless Man.  Whether or not this is Jaqen Hagar remains to be seen, as there could be two Faceless Men operating in Westeros.  I'll have to check more closely the timings of the events to see if it were possible to nip up to Pyke before travelling to Oldtown.

I think Melisandre probably saw the deaths of the other kings in her flames and used this to her avantage, making it look like she could use Edric Storm's blood to peform powerful sorcery.  Her ultimate goal was to convince Stannis that sacrificing Eddy Storm would wake the stone dragon.

The thing is though, if Euron is using Jaqen Hagar, is Jaqen Hagar still a Faceless Man?  Instead of referencing the "Many Faced God", Jaqen dedicates his kills to the "Red God".  Could he be Euron's personal secret agent?  Kind of a 007, licensed to take your face!

Its still possible if he took a ship to pyke then oldtown. It would also indicate why euron would attack old town. But jaqen doesn't nessicarily(icant spell) kill in the name of the red god, George said he made those kills in the name of the red god because he was about to be burned. So the red god needed its due. But as for the faceless man waiting on a bridge I think its odd that a faceless man would work for anyone unless they were payed in sacrifice. What did euron sacrifice it had to be a lot, a pirate of his stature. Euron has a lot of connections with the warlocks of qarth, red priests, and maybe even faceless ones. It makes him even more frightening a character i definitely wouldn't want him on any throne he's unfit for even the seastone chair!

[CJDTrismegistus]

True.  It would seem that Euron would have to pay a rather large price!  What sort of price?

Littlefinger says of the Faceless Men, "Do you have any idea how costly they are?"  The fact that GRRM uses italics on the "costly" part suggests that Euron's price would've been huge!  Littlefinger goes on to state, "You could hire an army of common sellswords for half the price, and that's for a merchant.  I don't dare think what they might ask for a princess."

How much would they ask for a king?  The price could be the dragon........

[Lord Liam DarkStark]

CJDTrismegistus, on 21 September 2012 - 01:29 PM, said:

True.  It would seem that Euron would have to pay a rather large price!  What sort of price?

Littlefinger says of the Faceless Men, "Do you have any idea how costly they are?"  The fact that GRRM uses italics on the "costly" part suggests that Euron's price would've been huge!  Littlefinger goes on to state, "You could hire an army of common sellswords for half the price, and that's for a merchant.  I don't dare think what they might ask for a princess."

How much would they ask for a king?  The price could be the dragon........

The price could be a dragon. They say a third of your wealth at least I think I read that somewhere. But that gives me a bad view for thobaw cause they started in valyria against the dragonlords. Seems strange they would want one. But dragons are definitely agents of fire and death so I'm sure they could find some uses for a dragon

[Lord Liam DarkStark]

I am curious though. How did alleras get the nickname the sphinx. I understand why it fits. But its kind of an odd nickname to just give a random dornish citadel student. George is awesome to make her character. But usually the nicknames are obvious. This one not so much, I mean we must assume her fellow acolytes/novices don't know she is a female. So why the nickname?

Edited by liam stark, 22 September 2012 - 10:06 AM.

[CJDTrismegistus]

Apparently Lazy Leo gave Alleras the nickname "the Sphinx".  Lazy Leo seems to be one of Marwin's "recruits" - he says he has seen the glass candle burining and he uses the same term as Marwyn to describe the other Maesters, grey sheep.  It may be that Marwyn has been using the glass candle and has seen that Alleras is Sarella.  Leo could be aware of who Alleras really is.  Lazy Leo seems to mock Alleras by suggesting -

"A lord's son should be open handed, Sphinx.  I understand you won your copper link.  I'll drink to that."  Alleras smiled back at him.  "I only buy for friends.  And I am no lord's son, I've told you that.  My mother was a trader."

I like the way Lazy Leo uses the term "won your copper link", rather than earned.  It seems to point that he is aware of Sarella's "game".  In the Prologue, Lazy Leo and Alleras seem to be at odds with each other - this could be that Alleras simply doesn't like Leo, or it could be that Alleras is frustrated at Leo for his Lazy tongue, Leo seems to have drunk too much and is giving up all sorts of information that Marwyn would rather keep secret.

I think it'll be Lazy Leo's relationship with Pate that reveals Pate to be Jaqen Hagar.  Lazy Leo will screw Rosey and Pate wont react as he'd be expected to - busted!

[Lord Liam DarkStark]

Awh yeah I remember reading he bestowed the nickname on her. I find it strange that marwyn didn't see pate doesn't have a face anymore. Like i'd excpect that to pop up in the glass candles. but i suppose marwyn wouldn't be just looking for pate in the light. I'd still expect it to be a noticeable thing though. I can't wait to find out what jaqen's true game is. And what sam and alleras will play.

[Sphinx The Riddle]

waiting for my name to be relevant

[CJDTrismegistus]

Maybe Marwyn wou'd've seen it in the candle but as he's buggered off to try and find Danny, he hasn't had the chance to look.  Could be that Sam or Alleras get the chance to use the candle, they see Pate for who he really is and try to stop whatever he's doing.....or join him in whatever he's doing?

[Lord Liam DarkStark]

Finding out pates true purpose could be very bad for them although we don't know how pate would feel since we don't know who he is working for.
But I would hope since he was still around the candle. He'll know the importance tof the two then. But I guess we'll know when the time comes