463 replies to this topic

[Angalin]

From the previous thread:

rmholt, on 17 September 2012 - 09:45 AM, said:

If the Last Hero lost his dog, his horse, and his sword, how did he get the original Dragonsteel sword?

Melisandra, on 17 September 2012 - 12:01 PM, said:

He didn't lose his sword...it broke due to extreme temperature, but each House has a dragonsteel family sword. But, I do not know if that was the case before or after the first long night. Azor Ahai created his sword and defeated the Others, but I think he's a different character than the Last Hero.

Sorry that I haven't completely answered your question! Perhaps someone else can chime in?

King Doug, on 17 September 2012 - 12:33 PM, said:

I'd be very careful in assuming dragonsteel=Valyrian steel. I for one, do not believe this is the case.

Sam tells Jon the legend of a man slaying his enemies with a sword made of dragonsteel. A singular sword, not plural.

Melisandra, on 17 September 2012 - 12:41 PM, said:

I typed "dragonsteel" into the wiki and was redirected to Valyrian steel, which confirms my belief that they are the same.

King Doug, on 17 September 2012 - 12:50 PM, said:

It very well may be true, but I don't think so. All I'm saying is that be careful with that assumption and be careful when using the wiki as the end-all-be-all of arguments.

[Belandra Waters]

Edit:  Deleted question to mod.

Edited by Belandra Waters, 17 September 2012 - 09:45 PM.

[Dr. Pepper]

Belandra Waters, on 17 September 2012 - 01:23 PM, said:

To the mod:

Sorry, not exactly sure how to address a question directly to you without going through the "report" route.

Could we please bring over my question and responses about Cersei being the Light of the West?  It was posted late yesterday and I'd really like to see if other posters have an opinion.  Thanks either way!

I don't think there's anything more to the "Light of the West" thing than it just being a moniker attached to denote just a bit more power and awe.  We learn in her POVs that Cersei really likes power and she loathes that fact that her power is mainly derived from the men around her.  Right before she's introduced with her titles, her son is introduced with a long list of titles.  Knowing what we do of Cersei, it makes sense that she'd prefer to be introduced with something other than regent and protector.

There's also the possibility that this is a symbol she wants to be known as.  She believes Lannisters are superior to others.  "The light of" is often used in reference to the seven or R'hllor.  These are faiths that aren't presented as being beacons of hope and prosperity to followers.  "The Light of the West" is sort of symbolically placing Cersei in this 'beacon' type role.  Sort of like saying, "Follow me and I will show you the way."

Still, another way to look at it would be that it's one of those monikers Cersei wants connected to her name.  Men have had them in the past.  Aegon the Conqueror, Jaehaerys the Concilliator, Lann the Clever, etc.  Of course there are also 'bad' men who had these names attached to their own name, Aegon the Unworthy, Maegor the Cruel, Brandon the Burner....Cersei may have wanted to be known as Cersei the Light of the West when she first took on a more powerful role as regent.  It's not a title, but a descriptor.  Similar to Dany's descriptors of "Mother of Dragons, the Unburnt, Breaker of Shackles..."

Edited by Dr. Pepper, 17 September 2012 - 01:54 PM.

[Sworn Shield]

Possible Winds of Winter spoilers

Is there any significance in the the world of Ice and Fire to blowing a horn three times? We know that at the nights Watch you blow a horn three times to announce Others are coming (beings of Ice) and in Victarions WoW chapter he is going to have horn blow three times to bind the dragons.

Edited by kazad, 17 September 2012 - 02:15 PM.

[total1402]

In the House of the Undying...What, if anything, is the beautiful woman being fondled with and having sex with the four dwarves supposed to be prophesising? Is this meant to fortell Sansa and Tyrions marriage or something else or is it just a acid trip moment?

Edited by total1402, 17 September 2012 - 02:30 PM.

[Sworn Shield]

I believe the House of the Undying with the women and four dwarves is meant to represent war in Westeros. The woman is Westeros and the Dwarves are the four kings remaining fighting over her.

Edited by kazad, 17 September 2012 - 02:36 PM.

[Ser Areo Mace]

Where was Renly during Robert's Rebellion?
Was he inside Storm's End with Stannis or did Robert hide him somewhere else?

[Sworn Shield]

I believe Renly wasn't at Storm's End and think he was hidden else where, probably with one of Robert's banner men. If I were to take a guess he was probably at House Estermont with his grandparents and family there.

[Scarlet Seastar]

On the questions about the last hero.
I was just re-reading the part of GoT when Old Nan tells Bran the story. She didn't finish the story, because Bran was taken down to the Great Hall to meet Tyrion who brings him the sketch of the saddle.
I don't remember the story being finished afterwards, and Old Nan was asleep in her chair when Robb took Bran back to his room.
The story ended with the Last Hero's sword breaking, his dog, horse and his friends dying. He didn't find the children.

Dragonsteel is not Valyrian steel-Sam finds records of dragonsteel and he and Jon only assume that it is Valyrian steel.
It would be too easy, IMO, if dragonsteel and valyrian steel were the same thing.

I think it's possible that there's dragonsteel on Dragonstone.
But we already know that there's obsidian there, so we may be in for a surprise on dragonsteel. I just don't see the point of introducing valyrian steel and obsidian into the story, and then introducing dragonsteel which will turn out to be dragonsteel.

May be Dawn is made of dragonsteel.

Edited by Scarlet Seastar, 17 September 2012 - 04:30 PM.

[Kosh Naranek]

That is a good point about Dawn.  Dawn is described at milky white is it not?

If the prince that was promised, AA and the last hero are seperate people, could Dark Star be the last hero?  He is a Dayne.

[The Lord's Kiss]

Edric Dayne would be more likely.

[Scarlet Seastar]

Do we know where is Edric Dayne now?
He's not with the Brotherhood in Feast, is he?

Darkstar is too obvious, and Edric is too much of a minor character, I think, to be the last hero. Also, we're all curious about Darkstar because of GRRM's comment. I don't think we would have been interested so much in him if GRRM hadn't said that.
Also, the last hero was looking for the Children, not for dragonsteel, I think.

On Darkstar-there's a crackpot theory forming in the back of my mind that Darkstar is Rhaegar, and Septa Lemore is Lyanna. But I will think it through and re-read all of Ned's chapters and his thoughts of Lyanna before I post it completely.

[FittleLinger]

Scarlet Seastar, on 17 September 2012 - 06:24 PM, said:

Do we know where is Edric Dayne now?
He's not with the Brotherhood in Feast, is he?

Darkstar is too obvious, and Edric is too much of a minor character, I think, to be the last hero. Also, we're all curious about Darkstar because of GRRM's comment. I don't think we would have been interested so much in him if GRRM hadn't said that.
Also, the last hero was looking for the Children, not for dragonsteel, I think.

On Darkstar-there's a crackpot theory forming in the back of my mind that Darkstar is Rhaegar, and Septa Lemore is Lyanna. But I will think it through and re-read all of Ned's chapters and his thoughts of Lyanna before I post it completely.

I was interested more in Darkstar because of Doran Martell's comment, could you please link or quote of what GRRM said about him?

[Belandra Waters]

Dr. Pepper, on 17 September 2012 - 01:53 PM, said:

I don't think there's anything more to the "Light of the West" thing than it just being a moniker attached to denote just a bit more power and awe.  We learn in her POVs that Cersei really likes power and she loathes that fact that her power is mainly derived from the men around her.  Right before she's introduced with her titles, her son is introduced with a long list of titles.  Knowing what we do of Cersei, it makes sense that she'd prefer to be introduced with something other than regent and protector.

There's also the possibility that this is a symbol she wants to be known as.  She believes Lannisters are superior to others.  "The light of" is often used in reference to the seven or R'hllor.  These are faiths that aren't presented as being beacons of hope and prosperity to followers.  "The Light of the West" is sort of symbolically placing Cersei in this 'beacon' type role.  Sort of like saying, "Follow me and I will show you the way."

Still, another way to look at it would be that it's one of those monikers Cersei wants connected to her name.  Men have had them in the past.  Aegon the Conqueror, Jaehaerys the Concilliator, Lann the Clever, etc.  Of course there are also 'bad' men who had these names attached to their own name, Aegon the Unworthy, Maegor the Cruel, Brandon the Burner....Cersei may have wanted to be known as Cersei the Light of the West when she first took on a more powerful role as regent.  It's not a title, but a descriptor.  Similar to Dany's descriptors of "Mother of Dragons, the Unburnt, Breaker of Shackles..."

I double-like this!!  Makes sense to me.  I don't think it's highly signifcant to the story but enough to make you go...hmmm, what's that all about?  Thanks!

[Scarlet Seastar]

FittleLinger, on 17 September 2012 - 06:38 PM, said:

I was interested more in Darkstar because of Doran Martell's comment, could you please link or quote of what GRRM said about him?

Oh, I don't really have it, I just read it here. I think it was someone asked a question about Darkstar, and GRRM said that he wondered why no one seemed more interested in the most dangerous man of Dorne. Or something along those lines. I might be wrong, though, my interest in Darkstar did increase when I saw that-even though I was curious about him trying to kill Myrcella.

What was Doran's comment? I remember something from Areo Hotah's chapter in Dance, but I was much more interested in how much was Doran going to reveal to the Snakes.


Okay, I found the thread where I read it.
Here's the quote:

Kosh Naranek, on 12 September 2012 - 04:10 PM, said:

Well for a ruined dynasty that would leave a lot of Targs running around.
1.  Dany
2.  Faegon/Aegon
3.  Jon if you believe R+L=J
4.  Darkstar/Rhaegar

Didn't Martin wonder why more readers were not curious about the most dangerous man in Dorne?  Maybe the boy claiming to be Aegon is a fake, and Darkstar is the real Targ deal.

Actually, I have no clue.  I do love the theory though because it is intriguing.  However, with Lyanna gone, I would rather that Rhaegar be ding, dong, dead.

And here's the link to the thread if you want to read more of that.
http://asoiaf.wester...dayne-darkstar/

Edited by Scarlet Seastar, 17 September 2012 - 06:58 PM.

[total1402]

kazad, on 17 September 2012 - 02:36 PM, said:

I believe the House of the Undying with the women and four dwarves is meant to represent war in Westeros. The woman is Westeros and the Dwarves are the four kings remaining fighting over her.

Didn't know the visions were indulging her ego by saying none of the claiments are even up to her knee.

Also, her vision showed Rhaegar with a woman and they name the child Aegon. This seemed quite a romantic scene and not the coldness you would expect with Ellia. Could this have been Lyanna and he was named Aegon but was abbreviated by Ned to Jon?

Also, who is the gold silver haired Dothraki standing around a burning city. Is that an image of the future or a future that may have happened...or both

Edited by total1402, 17 September 2012 - 07:08 PM.

[FittleLinger]

Oh, I made a comment of Martin being amazed of the large hatebase Darkstar had, maybe you were referring to this or maybe some other thing, but Doran's comment was "The most dangerous man in Dorne". I think it's because of something he is, or something he knows. The Martin comment could be just like, "He appears for a third of a chapter, what's the big deal?", but Doran's comment had me asking myself.

[Foxhound]

Ser Areo Mace, on 17 September 2012 - 03:33 PM, said:

Where was Renly during Robert's Rebellion?
Was he inside Storm's End with Stannis or did Robert hide him somewhere else?

Yes, he was at Storm's End. From Clash:

Quote

“Yields?” Lord Rowan laughed. “When Mace Tyrell laid siege to Storm’s End, Stannis ate rats rather than open his gates.”
“Well I remember.” Renly lifted his chin to allow Brienne to fasten his gorget in place. “Near the end, Ser Gawen Wylde and three of his knights tried to steal out a postern gate to surrender.
Stannis caught them and ordered them flung from the walls with catapults. I can still see Gawen’s face as they strapped him down. He had been our master-at-arms.”
Lord Rowan appeared puzzled. “No men were hurled from the walls. I would surely remember that.”
“Maester Cressen told Stannis that we might be forced to eat our dead, and there was no gain in flinging away good meat.” Renly pushed back his hair. Brienne bound it with a velvet tie and pulled a padded cap down over his ears, to cushion the weight of his helm. “Thanks to the Onion Knight we were never reduced to dining on corpses, but it was a close thing. Too close for Ser Gawen, who died in his cell.”

Edited by Foxhound, 17 September 2012 - 08:58 PM.

[Selyse's Moustache Rides]

The ADWD prologue mainly exists to establish that it is possible for a warg to live on beyond the life of their own body and therefore set the stage for Jon's "resurrection." Agreed, or no?

[Fire Eater]

DireHiker, on 17 September 2012 - 10:17 PM, said:

The ADWD prologue mainly exists to establish that it is possible for a warg to live on beyond the life of their own body and therefore set the stage for Jon's "resurrection." Agreed, or no?

Yes, but until TWoW comes out it is speculation although I believe it.