446 replies to this topic

[ShowOverBooks]

Newstar, on 11 December 2012 - 11:15 AM, said:

Yeah, from what I can tell of viewers who haven't read the books, Ned's death put them on notice that no one is safe,

Which isn't actually true. It is just that we thought Ned was a central character ("The Hero"), which he wasn't.

Quote

and they seem very alive to the stupidity of Robb's decision to marry Talisa, so I think while the actual fact of the Red Wedding will be quite shocking, Robb's downfall and death in of themselves won't come as the great surprise they did to book readers.

I don't see that at all. His marriage to Jeyne was far more inexplicable than marrying Talisa.

[Mr Fixit]

King Tommen, on 11 December 2012 - 04:15 PM, said:

I think the show needs to trust the audience a little more in that respect.  Plenty of ensemble shows will sideline characters from episode to episode without the audience losing touch.

OMAR!

[protar]

oierem, on 11 December 2012 - 03:58 PM, said:

Agreed with your interpretation about the season being "slow moving and fast moving" (although I do think part of the "too-slow" issues are related to the source material and the lack of progress of main story elements established in season 1. Book one is much more eventful than book 2).
But I totally disagree with your solution. Personally, I DO like checking on most of the characters in each episode, and I would really dislike to see certain characters only for a few episodes per season. Having Dany appear in 4 episodes in total feels like a bad idea (to me) because the audience would "forget" (or not care) about her storyline if she only appeared once every three-four weeks.
Ideally, all storylines should have a beginning, middle and ending, and the main beats should happen simultaneously. In episode 8 all storylines should be accelerating, getting to their conclussion; the dragons being kidnapped in episode 6 allows Dany's storyline to compete with the other storylines, because all of them are becoming urgent at this point.

I do think your solution would be a good idea, but tbh most plot lines are absent for 2-3 episodes as it is. I think it would be ideal for each episode to include 5-6 plotlines, one of them being KL each episode. Perhaps 7 for the season premier/finale if necessary. Each plot line should have 5/6 episodes, except KL of course.

This would also be helpful for when certain characters like Bran get less material as the series goes on, as less expansion is necessary to get them up to standard so to speak.

Edited by protar, 11 December 2012 - 04:35 PM.

[Padraig]

Drowningfish2304, on 10 December 2012 - 07:31 PM, said:

To be honest they managed to get the first season really true to the novel 'A Game Of Thrones' which is 73 chapters long
'A Storm of Swords' up to the Purple Wedding is 62 chapters

Its dangerous to look solely at the number of chapters rather than chapter length.  IIRC, page length wise aGoT and aSoS up to the PW is around the same length but there are added elements they have to deal with in S2 (Tullys, Barristan, Reeds, Theon) and a few subtracted elements.

I don't think Robb's death was a big shock for many book readers either.  It was the scale of the RW that appalled so many.  I also wonder will we see Michelle Fairley after S3.  For the few unCat appearances, they could keep her covered in a cloak.  And if required, show somebody under heavy makeup.  unCat is hardly worth her while as an actress.

I like having S4 end with unCat for various reasons.  I think it does end her arc well for S3.  I think it would be a bit of a loose thread to put in S4 (GRRM could wait till the end of aSoS because it was all one book and putting in exposition about the BwB killing Frey's wouldn't work as well on screen as it does in the books).  I think it will add an extra dimension to Arya's story in S4, as the BwB may try to track her down.  I think Cat's return is a very dark event (which should be clear if they do Beric right).  Its not a very cheerful moment but I think viewers will appreciate seeing a new angle to the Stark story.

ShowOverBooks, on 11 December 2012 - 06:21 AM, said:

Making a BIG DEAL of Tyrion's wedding suggests that the producers don't think they have enough material for season 3.

In a way yes.  But I think its more that they want to give some climax to that story.

protar, on 11 December 2012 - 04:33 PM, said:

I do think your solution would be a good idea, but tbh most plot lines are absent for 2-3 episodes as it is. I think it would be ideal for each episode to include 5-6 plotlines, one of them being KL each episode. Perhaps 7 for the season premier/finale if necessary. Each plot line should have 5/6 episodes, except KL of course.

Luckily, none of the top tier characters disappear as much as Dany and Jon do in aCoK.  So, I don't think it will ever be as big a problem again.  I'm not sure how I would have solved the problem with Dany in S2.  I do think I would forgive a lot if the ending is good and Dany's story didn't end well in S2.

I expected to see very little Bran in S2 also but they did give him more scenes than I expected and given the Reeds' introduction, it looks like they will continue to showcase the character.  Although, as mentioned, they wouldn't have to go as far as with Dany because he isn't as important.

ShowOverBooks, on 11 December 2012 - 04:21 PM, said:

Which isn't actually true. It is just that we thought Ned was a central character ("The Hero"), which he wasn't.

Heh.  This is one of those circular arguments.  Ned isn't a central character to the overall series because he was killed off.  But he was a central character in aGoT and if he wasn't killed off, then presumably he'd still be a central character.  But at that stage, we'd have a very different series.

[oierem]

King Tommen, on 11 December 2012 - 04:15 PM, said:

That logic would be great if each story was getting more or less the same amount of screentime throughout the season but that's not how ASOIAF is structured.  And by "checking in" with all of your characters each episode, you will continue to run into the same issue whereby everyone ends up being shortchanged because we don't get to hang out with anyone long enough during the episode to allow the story to breathe.  Season 2 too often felt like we were switching scenes in order to allow a box to be ticked off in terms of the plotpoints.  While Blackwater was a huge setpiece with a massive budget, there's no secret why it was thought of as the Season's best episode.  It was because we got an extended lead-up and explanation of the multiple characters involved in the battle as well as the conclusion of all of their arcs during the episode.  It was focused and that helped the execution of the story immensely.  Now Blackwater was an anomaly and you simply cannot focus on only one location per episode but you can definitely limit things to 4-5 spots and it will make a huge difference.

And remember that Dany's ACOK material is an extreme example because she only has 5 chapters.  For the majority of other characters, you'd only be having them miss 2 or maximum 3 episodes per season, it would rotate around evenly.  And trust me, audiences will not forget about characters if they skip an episode or two as long as when they are on screen, they make an impact.  I think the show needs to trust the audience a little more in that respect.  Plenty of ensemble shows will sideline characters from episode to episode without the audience losing touch.

I'm only stating my preference; I agree that jumping from one storyline to another is a problem (although each episode had 5-7 different storylines, no more), and it's true that Blackwater was great because it focused a single storyline. But still, I personally wouldn't want to see each character every two or three episodes; I like to be able to follow them weekly, specially with only 10 episodes per season.  It's just my preference, and I guess D+D think that there are more people like me

I didn't meant that the audience would literally forget a character, but I do believe that if one storyline isn't featured in a few episodes in a row, the audience wouldn't be involved on that storyline, and would rather see the continuation of the storyline they're invested in.

And don't forget that characters missing "2 or maximun 3" episodes per season is EXACTLY what they do!! Dany, Jon and Theon appeared in 8 episodes in season 2 (missing two). Robb and Bran appeared in 7 episodes (missing three). Robb appeared in 6 episodes (missing 4)!

Just keep in mind something. During season 2, when an episode ended on a literal cliffhanger (episodes 4 and 7) the ratings jumped for next episode. If they follow what you suggest, it means that if a storyline is featured in one episode, it wouldn't appear in the next, therefore dissapointing the audience that want to see a direct resolution to the cliffhanger from the previous week.

[Le Cygne]

Padraig, on 11 December 2012 - 05:26 PM, said:

I also wonder will we see Michelle Fairley after S3.  For the few unCat appearances, they could keep her covered in a cloak.  And if required, show somebody under heavy makeup.  unCat is hardly worth her while as an actress.

I'm sure we will.  It needs to be her.  I'm sure she'd love to come back for it.  They downplay the gruesomeness of the injuries on the show, so she's going to probably look pale with some deep scratches down her face, I'd imagine.

[AdrianAegon]

oierem, on 11 December 2012 - 05:48 PM, said:

And don't forget that characters missing "2 or maximun 3" episodes per season is EXACTLY what they do!! Dany, Jon and Theon appeared in 8 episodes in season 2 (missing two). Robb and Bran appeared in 7 episodes (missing three). Robb appeared in 6 episodes (missing 4)!

decide about Robb... were there 3 or 4 missings?

[Lannister Hamster]

Le Cygne, on 12 December 2012 - 11:49 PM, said:

I'm sure we will.  It needs to be her.  I'm sure she'd love to come back for it.  They downplay the gruesomeness of the injuries on the show, so she's going to probably look pale with some deep scratches down her face, I'd imagine.

I think the limitations depend on make up and budget rather than downplaying

[Lannister Hamster]

ShowOverBooks, on 11 December 2012 - 04:21 PM, said:

I don't see that at all. His marriage to Jeyne was far more inexplicable than marrying Talisa.

Depends if you subscribe to the love potion theory or not?

[oierem]

AdrianAegon, on 13 December 2012 - 04:52 AM, said:

decide about Robb... were there 3 or 4 missings?

Stannis was missing 3 and Robb was missing 4, sorry.

Edited by oierem, 13 December 2012 - 12:24 PM.

[Nezzer]

Le Cygne, on 12 December 2012 - 11:49 PM, said:

I'm sure we will.  It needs to be her.  I'm sure she'd love to come back for it.  They downplay the gruesomeness of the injuries on the show, so she's going to probably look pale with some deep scratches down her face, I'd imagine.

The gruesomeness of the injuries they downplayed would require too much CGI. Tyrion's nose would require CGI in every single scene he appears, just like Rorge's nose and Dagmer's jaw. They don't need that for Catelyn. She won't have any missing parts of her body, which is where the real problem is at. Without incredibly heavy injuries, its easy for them to do it and I think they will do it. I don't think they care if the gore is too much.

Edited by Nezzer, 15 December 2012 - 12:34 AM.

[The Fallen]

`  How early will we see the attack at the Fist of the First Men?

[The Dragon has three heads]

Circular Thread is circular.

[ShowOverBooks]

The Fallen, on 13 December 2012 - 11:59 PM, said:

`  How early will we see the attack at the Fist of the First Men?

First episode of season 3, since we saw the lead up to it in S2 E10

[The Fallen]

`  That would be a hell of a way to get season 3 started.

[Drowningfish2304]

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=uR5vNHfIDbw

here the guy who plays Jeor Mormont hints that the scene might begin Season 3

[The Dragon has three heads]

The uncat reveal could be a season 3 closer IF the BWB is explored more through out the season ie-aryas arc brought forward.
Otherwise we'll see her mid to late season 4.

[Lion of Judah]

You can't put both of them in the same season, I won't be surprised if that's not till season 4. They can't move too quickly with the story lines either.

[The Dragon has three heads]

I think we'll see the scene of finding cats body through nymerias eyes(like brans wargs in season 2). And perhaps the brother hood finding her as well, but her scene at old stones where perrin gets hung is too good/too big a game changer to cram into season 3.  But hey, anythings possible.

[Khal-a-bunga]

The Dragon has three heads, on 14 December 2012 - 10:32 PM, said:

I think we'll see the scene of finding cats body through nymerias eyes(like brans wargs in season 2). And perhaps the brother hood finding her as well, but her scene at old stones where perrin gets hung is too good/too big a game changer to cram into season 3.  But hey, anythings possible.

I think so, too. It allows D&D to show the audience that Arya also has the ability to warg, and sets up the reveal of Lady Stoneheart in season four. It may even be what opens the finale episode for this coming season.