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Changes from the books you would like to see (Spoilers for books 1-5)


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#1 Humble Asskicker

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 03:03 PM

Word of warning, if you are rigidly puristic about fidelity to the books, this thread probably will only serve to raise your blood pressure, so best avoid. This thread is for people who think that faithfully adapting books 4 and 5 would result in an unmitigated, nigh unviewable disaster and that sweeping changes must be made. If reading that last sentence gives you a headache, move on, my children, for it will only get worse from here.

For my money, I think that there are several improvements from the book are necessary for this series to work. Some of the more importantly changes I want to see:

-No UnCat, UnGregor, UnCharacterX. The UnCat thing is works somewhat in the books, hearing about the offscreen Frey murders and such, but UnGregor is flat-out retarded. It's awful in the books, and it would be comically bad in the show. Just the thought of some scene with a massive undead champion fighting for the trial of the queen's innocence or guilt makes me want to start laughing. Bad, bad. And UnCat not only undermines the power of the Red Wedding with a resurrection, but it's an unnecessarily protracted plot with little gain at all. Any other resurrected characters make the series a little less special for each one, and that is something I hope won't afflict GoT.

-The Hound dies. I want him to die. I know some people are hoping to have this epic dual between brothers at the end. This is retarded. I very much doubt that is what GRRM plans in the books and I sure the hell don't want to see such a farce in the tv series. I think GRRM's approach of Priest Sandor is very interesting and so far works well in the books, but I think the payoff of Sandor dying on screen is way too much to miss, and Sandor living adds too much bloat.

-Tyrion riding a boar and hanging with Penny. Fuck that. Just fuck that. Tyrion's entire Dance story needs to be completely overhauled. I don't care how, just find something different.

-Extended storylines. I want to see book 5 done in 10 episodes, not two or three seasons. Jon, Dany, and Cersei. The bare bones of their rise and fall is extremely interesting and substantial; the execution in the books is gratuitously protracted and boring. Scrunch these storylines into a tightly written, synchronistic 10 episodes and it could be gold.

What other changes do you folks wish for?

#2 protar

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 03:53 AM

Well certainly not most of them. Why not ask for a completely different story?

But I say most because despite being a die-hard purist there is one thing I will be perfectly happy to see removed from the series. And that is Penny.

#3 waaimasjien

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 04:07 AM

-Extended storylines. I want to see book 5 done in 10 episodes, not two or three seasons. Jon, Dany, and Cersei. The bare bones of their rise and fall is extremely interesting and substantial; the execution in the books is gratuitously protracted and boring. Scrunch these storylines into a tightly written, synchronistic 10 episodes and it could be gold.

I absolutely agree with this (about 10 episodes for both book 4 and 5, that is.). With the rest of your points, not so much.

#4 Myrish Swamp Thing

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 04:09 AM

Keep UnCat!!!!

As for UnGregor, I would have to see which direction he goes in Winter, but I wouldn't be upset if he's not in the show.

#5 PatrickStormborn

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 05:58 AM

I think Uncat needs to be kept. The biggest problem with her character is that her side of the story is progressing slowly, imo. If they streamlined AFfC and ADwD into one season (difficult, but not impossible), her character would be a lot more interesting.

Here are the changes I'd make:
  • No Walk of Shame for Cersei. Luckily I think Lena Headey has a no nudity clause, so I don't think we'll be seeing it.
  • No separate side-quest for Brienne. Let Jaime send her off in season four, and then not see her again until she comes to take him to Lady Stoneheart.
  • Queen of Thorns remains in King's Landing. Cersei's chapters in AFfC were great and very entertaining, but I think the show would benefit from keeping some of the other major characters around, particularly as by this point Tywin, Tyrion and Oberyn will all be gone.
  • Introduce Arianne with Oberyn, and show her arrival at Sunspear shortly after Oberyn's death.
  • Have Tyrion meet Aegon at Illyrio's manse. It would save time and money by removing a lot of the travelling.
  • Remove any trace of Maggy the Frog's prophecy. After losing her son and her father, I think Cersei becoming more paranoid is entirely believable without a contrived prophecy.
  • Change the person Ramsay marries from "Arya" to Talisa. By this point in the show, Robb will be dead, Bran, Rickon and Arya will be presumed dead, and Sansa will be "missing" and presumed guilty of regicide. Marrying Talisa would therefore give him a claim to Winterfell.


#6 Rolex Baratheon

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 06:02 AM

The whole of Dany's storyline. And you seriously don't want The Hound to fight The Mountain? This series falls in the genre of epic fantasy, not how-to-dissolve-any-possible-epicness fantasy.

Already I imagine the audience will be sick and tired of all the epic characters and plots simply dissolving after the Red Wedding takes place.

#7 Myrish Swamp Thing

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 06:07 AM

  • Change the person Ramsay marries from "Arya" to Talisa.


Jeeez, I know some people don't like the newly introduced characters, but what has Tal done to deserve this??? /tongue.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':P' />

Seriously now, I like a lot of your changes

#8 PatrickStormborn

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 06:10 AM

Jeeez, I know some people don't like the newly introduced characters, but what has Tal done to deserve this??? /tongue.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':P' />

Seriously now, I like a lot of your changes


Haha well I'm not suggesting it because I don't like Talisa (I don't particularly like her but I don't dislike her either). I wouldn't wish that fate on anyone and tbh I'd rather Ramsay married no one! But, if he must, I'd rather it be a character we already know, so we can feel triumphant when she escapes with Theon.

#9 Myrish Swamp Thing

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 06:43 AM

I'm sure many here would appreciate if Ros shared Book!Dontos' fate.

#10 Myrish Swamp Thing

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 07:43 AM

An obvious change, given the medium: No Arstan Whitebeard. Selmy is Selmy, ever since he shows up.

#11 oprahnoodlemantra

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 10:31 AM

I want Arianne to be introduced at King's Landing with Oberyn. She can return to Dorne before the fight with Gregor and then become a main character when more stuff happens in Dorne. Hell, they could introduce Areo Hotah too.

The hardest thing about adapting AFFC/ADWD is all of the new characters so if they slowly introduce them it will be easier for the viewer to catch on. If they expand Asha's story they could easily introduce Aeron, Victarion, and Euron a lot sooner.

I really hope season 4 finishes up ASOS and then moves right on to AFFC/ADWD. Then season 5 could finish those books and season 6 could begin TWOW. As much as I loved AFFC/ADWD I really don't think enough happened to adapt them into more than 12 or 13 episodes.

#12 Jolene Brown

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 11:06 AM

OMG, marrying Talisa would NOT give anyone a claim to Winterfell. The only reason Lysa is in charge of the Vale is because she is Sweetrobin's regent. And for god's sake, let the RW be the end of that awful awful awful character. The biggest change I would make, despite being a purist, is for Talisa to die at the RW.

#13 King Tommen

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 11:43 AM

OMG, marrying Talisa would NOT give anyone a claim to Winterfell. The only reason Lysa is in charge of the Vale is because she is Sweetrobin's regent. And for god's sake, let the RW be the end of that awful awful awful character. The biggest change I would make, despite being a purist, is for Talisa to die at the RW.


So in the scenario where all of the Stark children are either dead or missing, who does have the claim to Winterfell? And is this not the exact same scenario that took place with Ramsay forcefully marrying Lady Hornwood to take the claim of that house?

#14 Jolene Brown

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 11:50 AM

So in the scenario where all of the Stark children are either dead or missing, who does have the claim to Winterfell? And is this not the exact same scenario that took place with Ramsay forcefully marrying Lady Hornwood to take the claim of that house?


Once Jon turns it down, Stannis plans to give it to a Karstark, because that is the nearest relation he can come up with. It would go to whoever the nearest cousin is, as in the Harry the Heir being the heir to Sweetrobin situation. What Ramsay did was not lawful, there was just no one to really do anything about it - and Rodrik Cassel did go to take care of the situation, that's how he ended up catching Ramsay raping that woman and thinking that , he'd killed Ramsay in the first place, as I remember it (although that section was a little confusing). Roose talks about making up for his "bastard's crimes" in ASOS, presumably including the Lady Hornwood situation.

This is why Tywin wants Tyrion to take Sansa's maidenhead. Because he has no claim on Winterfell until he fathers a son on her. The claim comes through Tyrion and Sansa's son, not through the marriage.

#15 PatrickStormborn

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 12:04 PM

OMG, marrying Talisa would NOT give anyone a claim to Winterfell. The only reason Lysa is in charge of the Vale is because she is Sweetrobin's regent. And for god's sake, let the RW be the end of that awful awful awful character. The biggest change I would make, despite being a purist, is for Talisa to die at the RW.


Here's a quote from Ser Rodrik after Ramsay has married Lady Hornwood:

"The monster has tied us a thorny knot," the old knight told Maester Luwin. "Like it or no, Lady Hornwood was his wife. He made her say the vows before both septon and heart tree, and bedded her that very night before witnesses. She signed a will naming him as heir and fixed her seal to it."


Ramsay's crime is not that he has been named her heir; it's that he forced her to marry him and left her to die.

As the Lady of Hornwood, it was her duty to name an heir to the lands. Talisa would hold a similar responsibility if there were no available Stark heirs.

Edited by PatrickStormborn, 30 September 2012 - 12:06 PM.


#16 King Tommen

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 12:05 PM

Once Jon turns it down, Stannis plans to give it to a Karstark, because that is the nearest relation he can come up with. It would go to whoever the nearest cousin is, as in the Harry the Heir being the heir to Sweetrobin situation. What Ramsay did was not lawful, there was just no one to really do anything about it - and Rodrik Cassel did go to take care of the situation, that's how he ended up catching Ramsay raping that woman and thinking that , he'd killed Ramsay in the first place, as I remember it (although that section was a little confusing). Roose talks about making up for his "bastard's crimes" in ASOS, presumably including the Lady Hornwood situation.

This is why Tywin wants Tyrion to take Sansa's maidenhead. Because he has no claim on Winterfell until he fathers a son on her. The claim comes through Tyrion and Sansa's son, not through the marriage.


So whoever's in charge can essentially choose who they want to be in that spot as long as they can somewhat justify it by some form of lineage? How is this not any different? King Tommen (through Tywin) is willing to legitimize Ramsay as the Lord of Winterfell through some kind of connection to the Starks. It's a means to an end in order for the Lannisters to get their guys into a power position in the North. It's not like it's a foolproof plan that passes the smell test if anyone really wanted to pick at it longterm. The point is that there's really no one in the position to question or challenge this arrangement at this time which is why the Lannister's are pushing it through. The "fake Arya" story is no more plausible considering it counts on all of Westeros having never met Arya before and believing that she's been at King's Landing this entire time despite no one having seen or heard from her over the course of 4 books. It's meant as a quickie fix to a problem so that Ramsay can get into power and consolidate it before people figure out that the Arya thing is a sham.

I don't think the point of the story is for people to pick out who would be the official heir and who wouldn't be (since there is no clearcut answer to this question at that time). It's merely the Lannister's providing at least some level of plausible connection to Winterfell for Ramsay to use in his power grab. Robb's widow is a good enough choice as any given all the chaos that exists in the power vaccuum in the North.

#17 Si Targaryen

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 12:45 PM

Instead of her betraying Tyrion, Shae is sent to Essos by Tywin, becoming the person Tyrion goes looking for "wherever whores go". I can see this being likely, as they've built Tyrion and Shae up as "true love" and this would make more sense than Tyrion going to look for a girl that has only been mentioned once in the series.

#18 Myrish Swamp Thing

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 07:13 PM

I want Arianne to be introduced at King's Landing with Oberyn. She can return to Dorne before the fight with Gregor and then become a main character when more stuff happens in Dorne. Hell, they could introduce Areo Hotah too.


I think Areo Hotah will get axed (heh) from the show.

#19 Walder Waters

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 03:30 PM

Changes should only be done if need be, so it is not whether one likes a "sidequest" or not. It is all about how to shorten the story for the limited time of a 10 episodes TV show and how to show the story in an understandable way to those who haven't read the books.

Despite all negative critics regarding the changes on Shae and Jeyne/Talisa I don't think that they changed it without a reason (in the meaning of necessity!) and I actually liked what they made of it.

#20 Noelle Snow

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 03:48 PM

Instead of her betraying Tyrion, Shae is sent to Essos by Tywin, becoming the person Tyrion goes looking for "wherever whores go". I can see this being likely, as they've built Tyrion and Shae up as "true love" and this would make more sense than Tyrion going to look for a girl that has only been mentioned once in the series.


As shocking as Tyrion killing Shae would be, this scenario might actually work and would make sense. Perhaps they could use Ros in place of Shae dying in Tywin's bed.