142 replies to this topic

[Royal Oats]

Meddler, on 03 November 2012 - 02:11 PM, said:

I'd actually written most of an essay about which POVs might die to submit to a different website, putting odds on the potential for each living POV to die, but never got around to submitting it. I'll just put the meat of it here.

The problem with a strictly POV analysis is that new characters can be written, or existing characters can be elevated to continue with a POV line. Without Jon Snow we still have plenty of good eyes and ears at the Wall.  Equally true for Kings Landing without Cersei.  I think that the character arc is more significant.  I believe that we need to assess character's internal roles and their impact to the overall storyline to determine who goes or remains.  Then again, this author is known for suprises.  That's what makes this damn story so compelling.

[Meddler]

miguel sanchez, on 05 November 2012 - 03:14 AM, said:

Great post, Meddler! Very well thought out and reasoned.
I feel those are accurate odds, the only one I'd disagree with is Theon, I feel he is more likely to die than Tyrion (they have the same odds),I think 4:1 or 3:1 fits better. With Theon, he does have a lot to offer the plot, however his death can also offer something to plot (ie. hearttree sacrifice) or he can have some importance just prior to perishing (ie. kingsmoot deemed invalid, revealing he didn't murder Bran and Rickon)

I can see where you're coming from, but I actually don't think Theon is necessarily any more likely to die than Tyrion. The only large mechanical element keeping Tyrion in play is the Valonqar prophecy, and most of us don't even think he's actually a part of that, he's just keeping it ambiguous enough so the reader isn't certain that it's actually going to be Jamie. Meanwhile Theon has the ability to recall the Kingsmoot and dethrone Euron, as not only was he a viable claimant to the seastone chair, he had the strongest natural claim as Balon's son.

I think they're both important characters who yet have a lot left to offer, but they're not quite on the Jon and Dany level of importance. I could see anywhere from 3:1 to 6:1 for them (I gave them 6:1 because it helped the totals as much as anything), but I do think they should be about the same.

Royal Oats, on 12 November 2012 - 04:08 AM, said:

The problem with a strictly POV analysis is that new characters can be written, or existing characters can be elevated to continue with a POV line. Without Jon Snow we still have plenty of good eyes and ears at the Wall.  Equally true for Kings Landing without Cersei.  I think that the character arc is more significant.  I believe that we need to assess character's internal roles and their impact to the overall storyline to determine who goes or remains.  Then again, this author is known for suprises.  That's what makes this damn story so compelling.

Well, one thing I forgot to mention (it was in intro to the original essay but I cut that for the forum post) was that GRRM has stated that he doesn't intend to add any more POVs. It should have been noted as it allows the geographical analysis elements to work. And of course, GRRM has been known to go back on his word from time to time, but assuming he doesn't add any more (non-prologue/epilogue) POVs, it would be very difficult for him to kill off someone like Cersei or Sansa or Sam and give us direct access to Kings Landing, the Vale, or Oldtown, respectively.

[Diehard_si]

He'll go for the shock element for sure.

I'd say the only ones safe are Dany, Arya and probably Jon.

I think the semi safe ones of Tyrion, LF, Varys, Sansa could be at risk. Maybe kill a few of them for shocks.

Then maybe Stannis or the Boltons.

[Jonathan28]

I expect a lot of the POV characters to die, they really need to be cut down. Dany, Tyrion, Arya and Jon are safe. Everyone else is up for grabs.

[sharm_dracarys]

i definitely see more of Cersei's children dying in the next book. Her unquenchable ambition puts her in a perfect position for more loss. I don't think that she has hit rock bottom as yet. I think that Cersei's death will be in DoS.

We have seen the deaths of many POV characters who actively played the game out in the open... but the schemers and manipulators haven't been cast as vulnerable as yet... so I think that either Varys, Littlefinger or even Illyrio are going down. Killing off a 'mastermind' would really put a spanner in the works.

and Ramsay has got to go! he had his fifteen minutes of fame and the time is right for him to go out with a bang!

From the main POV characters (arya, jon, dany, tyrion) it's hard to say... I predict that Tyrion would meet his end but maybe in the last book, not anytime soon.

[The Emperor]

Death is coming with fire and blood for...

Sir Barristan Selmy (saving Naaharis)
Dario Naaharis (cannot escape)
Penny (please george you cant keep her in the game...)
Lancel Lannister (killed by Robert Strong...GC)
Shireen Baratheon
Roose Bolton
Ramsay Bolton
3/4 of Freys and Boltons army
Tommen Baratheon
Margaery Tyrell
Jon Connighton
Khal Pono / Jakho
Hizdahr zo Lorak
probably all of the Yunkai / Qarth / Volantis / and other slavers army (dragons)

Who will survive or are still alive...!!!

Jon Snow (AA)
Theon
Cersei
Greywind (who knows if he didnt escape...he wasnt in the castle)
Davos
Jamie
* if greywind is still alive and Robb lives inside him then maybe Cat will surcrifise to bring back our King

[lightbringer333]

in the next book dany will use her dragon force and aegon his army to take most of the south. then both targaryen will fight against each other for the throne. aegon , stannis, bolton, greyjoys,freys will be killed in dragon war. cersei will be killed by jamie.  dany may die not sure. At the end of WOW the wall will go down.

and at the start of ADOS  other will spread in the entire kingdoms killing millions in darkness.  dragons (riders as dany, arya and tyrion) will be deployed killing most of the walkers spreading in the north.all three riders will die with dragons in suicide mission. bran will also take part with COTF to kill others with magic.  white walkers will continue spreading and crossing neck and moving south sweeping all kingdoms and wiping out 90% of population.

in the darkness jon as leader of the survivors will ride from town to town killing remaining walking dead that escaped from dragon fire. he will free people hidden in caves and basement. and treating wounded and helping to recover and rebuild the kingdoms. finally he will be declared as true leader and savior protector of seven kingdoms.

[Cynthia Snow]

Quote

Greywind (who knows if he didnt escape...he wasnt in the castle)
...
* if greywind is still alive and Robb lives inside him then maybe Cat will surcrifise to bring back our King

Grey Wind is definitely dead.  His death was described by the Freys that Jaime talked to during the siege of Riverrun, and the other wolves can sense that he isn't alive anymore.

[armidil0]

Hodor. Sorry, but it's probably going to happen.

[ninja368]

Cersei will die by Jamie's hand, but maybe not in book 6. Jaime will live. Theon has a 50/50 chance, though he will probably bite it before the end, possibly redeeming himself in the process. Stannis will most likely die, as will Tommen and Myrcella. Some of Dany's Dothraki will bite it. Selmy is a distinct possibility. I don't thing Victarion will bite it in this book, but will by the end. I think he'll kill his brother first and through him Dany will obtain the horn which will give her complete control of her dragons. Jon Snow will die, but be reborn as he is either Azor Ahai or one part of it. I think Dany will arrive in Westeros and join with Jon Snow to defeat the Others, then they will turn south to fight for the iron throne against the fake Targ. Tyrion will live. Sansa will somehow either outwit Little Finger at his own game and bring him down or get him killed. Arya will probably return to Westoros in some function. Uncat will die, and a good chance Brienne will as well, possibly saving Jaime somehow.

[scotcat]

I think Cersei will die, along with one - perhaps both - of her children. Theon I could see dying, Stannis will likely die. If Jon did indeed surivive what happened in the previous book I can see him making it to the end - though not necessarily as 'Jon'. I'd like Dany to die, but i don't think it will happen. Also, many Frey's and Boltons should die messy deaths.

[Pinkie Baelish]

-I feel that Theon's end will be in TWOW. It's just that his character arc seems to have almost reached full circle, and there's not much left to day.
-I'm 95% convinced that Brienne will be killed in Jaime's meeting with Lady Stoneheart
-Victarion Greyjoy
-Either Roose or Ramsay Bolton- and I have a feeling that it would be one that kills the other. Either Roose kills the monster he's created, or Ramsay kills the one man he seems to truly be afraid of.
-Robert Arryn will probably die, thus triggering LF's next big move, whatever it is.

I don't think Cersei will die just yet. I expect her to die towards the end of ADOS, because she's just too prominent of a character to die before that IMO. I could be wrong though. I predict that either Jaime kills her or vice versa. If she kills Jaime, then Tyrion will be the one that wraps his hands around her throat.

Stannis I can see dying either at the end of the TWOW, or in the middle of ADOS. As much as I like Stannis, I don't see him having a happy ending, and I have a sneaky suspicion that he will probably be sacrificed to resurrect Jon.
I can also see Lady Stoneheart dying, but I don't know how.

What about Euron? He's one of the few characters where I have absolutely NO idea what his endgame will be.

[Pinkie Baelish]

Ilyn Payne, on 31 October 2012 - 09:48 AM, said:

LF and Varys will die in the last book.

LF maybe, but I just don't see Varys dying. He truly is the master of the game of thrones.

"the waves break overhead, the big fish eat the little fish and I keep paddling"

I truly believe that Varys will be the last man left standing by the end of the series. It would be epic if he was the epilogue for ADOS.

Edited by Pinkie Baelish, 19 November 2012 - 05:28 AM.

[TheCrannogDweller]

Pinkie Baelish, on 19 November 2012 - 05:24 AM, said:

I don't think Cersei will die just yet. I expect her to die towards the end of ADOS, because she's just too prominent of a character to die before that IMO. I could be wrong though. I predict that either Jaime kills her or vice versa. If she kills Jaime, then Tyrion will be the one that wraps his hands around her throat.

   I think they will kill each other and die together.

   IMO, Theon has a bigger role to play than just die for his betrayal.

   In a perfect world, Roose and Ramsay just have to die gruesome deaths. Unfortunately, Westeros isn't a perfect world. I still think they will both die - but not as violently and ugly as they deserve. I myself am rooting for a direwolf (or a pack of wolves) eating them alive.

   And yes, Euron is definitely a puzzle.

Edited by TheCrannogDweller, 22 November 2012 - 04:23 PM.

[aryagonnakill]

Meddler, on 12 November 2012 - 02:14 PM, said:

I can see where you're coming from, but I actually don't think Theon is necessarily any more likely to die than Tyrion. The only large mechanical element keeping Tyrion in play is the Valonqar prophecy, and most of us don't even think he's actually a part of that, he's just keeping it ambiguous enough so the reader isn't certain that it's actually going to be Jamie. Meanwhile Theon has the ability to recall the Kingsmoot and dethrone Euron, as not only was he a viable claimant to the seastone chair, he had the strongest natural claim as Balon's son.

I think they're both important characters who yet have a lot left to offer, but they're not quite on the Jon and Dany level of importance. I could see anywhere from 3:1 to 6:1 for them (I gave them 6:1 because it helped the totals as much as anything), but I do think they should be about the same.




Well, one thing I forgot to mention (it was in intro to the original essay but I cut that for the forum post) was that GRRM has stated that he doesn't intend to add any more POVs. It should have been noted as it allows the geographical analysis elements to work. And of course, GRRM has been known to go back on his word from time to time, but assuming he doesn't add any more (non-prologue/epilogue) POVs, it would be very difficult for him to kill off someone like Cersei or Sansa or Sam and give us direct access to Kings Landing, the Vale, or Oldtown, respectively.

sharm_dracarys, on 15 November 2012 - 07:27 AM, said:

i definitely see more of Cersei's children dying in the next book. Her unquenchable ambition puts her in a perfect position for more loss. I don't think that she has hit rock bottom as yet. I think that Cersei's death will be in DoS.

We have seen the deaths of many POV characters who actively played the game out in the open... but the schemers and manipulators haven't been cast as vulnerable as yet... so I think that either Varys, Littlefinger or even Illyrio are going down. Killing off a 'mastermind' would really put a spanner in the works.

and Ramsay has got to go! he had his fifteen minutes of fame and the time is right for him to go out with a bang!

From the main POV characters (arya, jon, dany, tyrion) it's hard to say... I predict that Tyrion would meet his end but maybe in the last book, not anytime soon.

First quote, Tyrion may be  Targ, will at least be Dany's hand.
GRRM said he would TRY not to give us any new POV's of characters WE HAVEN'T MET YET meaning we could get one from anyone we already met like in AFFC and ADWD
Second quote, I name Tywin Lannister as a manipulator.

Edited by aryagonnakill, 22 November 2012 - 06:25 PM.

[tuxguy]

If Jon is the champion of light, he will need to kill someone close to him to get the real 'lightbringer' (i think thats what that sword was called) Arya perhaps? They mentioned right from the beginning of book 1 how close they were.

[Nick Baratheon]

Lord Starkatheon´s death predictions:

House Frey ( either the BwB or the Vale under Sansa will do a "Castamere" to the twins, and to that halfwit Freyguy in Riverrun )
House Bolton ( STANNIS!! STANNIS!! )
Arnolf Karstark & co ( from the WoW Theon chapter )
Joien Reed ( so damn weak, that guy, and his purpose is pretty much fulfilled I´d say )
Uncat ( I don´t know why or how but she´ll bite the dust )
Robert Arryn ( LF will see to that )
Victarion ( I´m afraid he´ll die heroically in the battle for Meereen {after slaying ten billion Ghiscari with his bare hands} , or get stabbed in the back by Moqorro )
Griff
Barristan Selmy
Khal Jhaqo
Aegon ( was introduced too late to become a lasting character, EVEN if he truly is Rhaegar´s son )
Three-eyed crow
Tommen
Balon Swann

Edited by Lord Starkatheon, 12 December 2012 - 05:14 PM.

[Nick Baratheon]

The Emperor, on 15 November 2012 - 09:33 AM, said:

Death is coming with fire and blood for...

Sir Barristan Selmy (saving Naaharis)
Dario Naaharis (cannot escape)
Penny (please george you cant keep her in the game...)
Lancel Lannister (killed by Robert Strong...GC)
Shireen Baratheon
Roose Bolton
Ramsay Bolton
3/4 of Freys and Boltons army
Tommen Baratheon
Margaery Tyrell
Jon Connighton
Khal Pono / Jakho
Hizdahr zo Lorak
probably all of the Yunkai / Qarth / Volantis / and other slavers army (dragons)

Who will survive or are still alive...!!!

Jon Snow (AA)
Theon
Cersei
Greywind (who knows if he didnt escape...he wasnt in the castle)
Davos
Jamie
* if greywind is still alive and Robb lives inside him then maybe Cat will surcrifise to bring back our King

Sorry, but the Freys sewed Grey wind´s head onto Robb´s neck

[Nick Baratheon]

tuxguy, on 11 December 2012 - 07:51 PM, said:

If Jon is the champion of light, he will need to kill someone close to him to get the real 'lightbringer' (i think thats what that sword was called) Arya perhaps? They mentioned right from the beginning of book 1 how close they were.

good idea!
I think Ghost is also a possible Nissa Nissa no. 2

[<SotM>]

Jaqen H'gar vs Sam the Slayer

Mind = custard.