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Could Jon Snow actually be Aegon Targaryen


Of the North

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  • 4 weeks later...

I see everyone's points about timeline but i kind of think his NAME is aegon. Why would that be so hard to believe? When Dany was in the house of the undying she saw Rhaegar with a woman whom he told to name the baby Aegon. Why couldn't that be Lyanna? Ned would have given him the name of Jon Snow to hide his parentage. His surname wouldn't be targaryen i guess but his name could still be Aegon. His is the song of ice and fire. stark and targ. i dont believe young griff is aegon. Dany and Jon are 2 of the dragon heads.... who could be the third?

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  • 2 months later...

There may be the whole thing of the ages not matching up, but as pointed out there was no mention he was newborn just that ned returned with another womans child. He would however (as honorable as he is) say it is his child instead of blurting out its a targaryen mothered by his sister, in order to save the childs life from roberts anger if found out after all she was betrothed to robert. All i know is ned found his sister on a bed covered in blood (gave birth)... and that she made him promise something before she died (bring it up as his own?)... there were three of the greatest swordsmen kept guard there and why would they be unless for something important (birth of the heir?). People can say all they like that in the books aegon as young griff dyed his hair which helped mask his eyes and identity of being a targaryen, and that jon snow in the books is not young griff etc. Fair enough. But it is not the 1st time something from the book was completely changed when put into the show... Robbs wife was not meant to be at the RW but she was, even characters have been created just for the show. So Jon could be the 3rd head to the dragon and heir to the iron throne, having taken on his mothers stark like traits what with the hair etc... it does all piece together fairly well and maybe that is why ned was so uneasy about wanting to talk to jon about his mother... even when robert was asking about that whore, his bastards mother, ned was quick to change subject and was uneasy about it. What would the story unfold into if he was, what route would it take?

As you watch me with a vigil stare, i burn the world around you.

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I have a sort of a weird idea that the three heads of the Dragon are ALL Targ/Stark combos.

Now this is really wacko but:

1. Dany = Rhaenys plus Ned (the timing fits) OR Dany is Ashara Dayne plus Ned (Ashara pretending to be Rhaenys)

2. Jon = Lyannna + Rhaegar

3. X= Benjen or Brandon plus some other Targ female

4. Aegon (griff) = Elia and Brandon Stark or perhaps some Targ looking Dornish guy

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I see everyone's points about timeline but i kind of think his NAME is aegon. Why would that be so hard to believe? When Dany was in the house of the undying she saw Rhaegar with a woman whom he told to name the baby Aegon. Why couldn't that be Lyanna? Ned would have given him the name of Jon Snow to hide his parentage. His surname wouldn't be targaryen i guess but his name could still be Aegon. His is the song of ice and fire. stark and targ. i dont believe young griff is aegon. Dany and Jon are 2 of the dragon heads.... who could be the third?

I thought this too when thinking back on that scene. It would seem logical that Jon is "the song of ice and fire" if R+L=J, so I thought this vision was of Rhaegar, Lyanna, and who we know as Jon. Since Lyanna was so moved by Rhaegar's singing at Harrenhal it would also seem logical that Lyanna would ask Rhaegar if he would sing a song about their son. They named him Aegon, but of course Ned will not keep that name for him while raising him under the guise of being his bastard. So what you and I are both surmising is that Jon's real name is Aegon Targaryen, not that Jon and Aegon the son of Rhaegar and Elia are one and the same.

The only problem is, why would Rhaegar name two of his sons the same name, even if they had different mothers? I cant seem to get around this. I suppose it's possible he would name two sons Aegon but it seems rather uncreative and nonsensical.

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no. Timeline doesn't match the looks don't match

Timeline and looks aren't an issue, we aren't speculating that Jon Snow is really the Aegon that was the son of Rhaegar and Elia. What we are speculating is that Rhaegar had a son by Elia named Aegon, and then also named his son by Lyanna Aegon, who Ned renamed Jon.

The only issue is why would Rhaegar name both his sons Aegon?

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Okay, let's assume that Jon is Aegon:

- Now it makes less sense that he was with Lyanna

- It makes less sense that Ned decided to raise him as his bastard

- His looks makes less sense (none)

- His age makes less sense

Is there any reason to prefer this theory over R + L = J?

Edit: Oh, it's about his name? Forget it then. But I neither see the evidence nor the significance.

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The only significance is whether the vision in the House of the Undying is Rhaegar, Elia, and Aegon or Rhaegar, Lyanna, and Jon. It seems that the latter make more sense as the people in the vision but GRRM stated that the baby was Aegon, which means it was Rhaegar and Elia. It just seems so very GRRM to say the baby was Aegon and find out later that Jon Snow's name is really Aegon as well. I sincerely doubt that Jon was the name Lyanna and Rhaegar would have chosen for him. It's the name Ned would have chosen.

If the vision has significance, and it would seem it does since Dany and vision-Rhaegar locked eyes during it, what does it mean? If it's Elia and Aegon the vision would seem to point to something different than if it's Lyanna and Jon in the vision with Rhaegar. Does that make sense?

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Timelime is an issue. Rhaegar died before Jon was born, he could have told Lyanna what to name the child if it was a boy but there was certainly no discussion of the babes name with tthe three of them present.

True, but it's a vision, which means its not a literal scene of something that actually happened. The vision she saw of the Red Wedding was not exactly as it happened either.

Rhaegar does say in the vision that there must be one more, that the dragon has three heads...which would mean if he is talking to the woman it would have to be Elia, but it is unclear whether he is talking to her or to Dany.

So I guess what I am saying is if it's Elia and Aegon in the scene, does that mean that the vision indicates that the Aegon that is with Jon Con is legit and that his is the song of ice and fire?

Or is it Lyanna and Jon in the scene, and that Jon's is the song of ice and fire, and Rhaegar is telling Dany that there is one more Targ out there?

Or are visions just hogwash? :-)

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It indicates what Rhaegar believed. He may well have been wrong in his interpretation of the prophecy, he wouldn't be the first.

The vision doesn't have to be exactly true but it is a vision of an event that has already happened so it may be that true details were being replayed. The vision of Rhaegar on the Trident seems to corroborate other versions of the story we have heard. A vision of future events by its nature seems more likely to be a symbolic representation as the future is more malleable

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So, what's more likely?

Option 1: Aegon from the vision is the actual Aegon, Rhaegar's second child. "There must be one more, the dragon has three heads" refers to him believing that he has to have a third child (Jon).

Option 2: Aegon from the vision is really Jon, Rhaegar's third child, whom he never met. From all the Targaryen names he could choose for him, he just gives him the same name as his second child. "There must be one more yada yada" refers to... whatever.

I can't decide.

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Gotta apply the 'razor' to this one I'm afraid.

If this is a vision of Aegon as a babe then everything in the scene makes sense as a vision of the past. I can't see anything that leaps up and screams of not fitting. Sure people will bring up the whole 'Prince that was promised' and how Jon is supposed to be 'the song of ice and fire' blahbity blah, but this is Rhaegars belief, not what is true, or what we might think/speculate is true.

'There must be one more....' he thinks he needs another child for his 'three headed dragon' prophesy - this leads to Lyanna Stark and (possibly) Jon.

on the other hand if we think it's Jon we have to reconcile a bunch of things:

He wanted to name BOTH his male children Aegon? George Foreman did it... but Rhaegar, the bookish poet, musician, scholar..... the 'warrior bard' cant think up another name?

The woman he's speaking to with the babe... He never saw Jon, he was busy off being killed by Robert. So how can they both be there looking at the kid and him naming him?

THere must be one more - because the dragon must have three heads... hmmm I don't think the scholar would forget his numbers that easy.. if he needed one more that would make 4.... 'Unless he needed 3 MALES' I hear you cry... well... perhaps... but it's a stretch - I don't see him being that hung up on the 'male' thing. As a scholar I'm sure he's aware of Aegon I (his childs namesake) kicking the shit out of the 7 kingdoms with his two sister-wives.

So on one hand the biggest reconciliation needed is Rheagar possibly being wrong about this prophesy - something he's been in the past (as it's pretty much said that he suspected HE was the Prince That Was Promised when he decided to take up swordplay).

On the other hand... a bunch of things that don't quite fit without making even more elaborate speculations.

People can believe what they will, but to be honest I think the more plausable possibility is the first: Aegon in the vision is actually Aegon.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Could the vision be a glimpse at the ripples of time and a message of prophecy given in the form of those who she may fall to believe??

House of the undying would maybe connect her to such prophecy.

I may need to reread, but is there anything wrong with the idea that the vision is not really of an actual event happening, but prophecy giving her an image like this to guide her towards something she needs to know, if you get my meaning?

Maybe she was given a vision to help her piece together a story, something she needs to know.

Maybe this child is young griff as aegon... (although the jon theory does also seem plausable) and by possible looking at her in this vision (uncertain but could have been) showing her its a message to her. Maybe the third head is jon, and he was born to lyanna stark which explains his un-targaryen looks as he took on stark traits making it easy to pass him off as neds.... (times dont match?) all it said was another womans child, not a newborn.

MY THEORY BELOW!!

There is question as to whether the infant child Aegon VI murdered at the sack of king landing was infact just a peasent baby.

This could lead to Danaerys, Young Griff being the not murdered infant Aegon, and Jon as the son of Lyanna renamed from Aegon to Jon by ned who promised to bring him up at the deathbed of his sister. (after giving birth).

3 children, 3 heads.... Jon is the song of ice and fire???

As you watch me with a vigil stare, i burn the world around you.

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  • 4 months later...

I agree. That Stark look has been made much of by Martin - and it connects Jon with the North, the Wall, the First Men, the CoF. If he is a Targ, ,at least up until now, his blood has been pure Stark. (He does not know otherwise!)

I am not looking forward to Jon learning the truth, if Ned is not his dad. At least with modern psychology, Jon will have to deal with betrayal issues. This is why Ghost needs to visit BR - so a Targ can tell him the truth - lessen the blow. Just my nutty thoughts. :cheers:

I agree with you. Jon Snow will not take the truth very well, and Bloodraven will encounter resistance as he tries to show him the truth. I imagine that the conversation will go much like this...

Bloodraven: it's time you know the truth of what you really are---

Jon Snow: I'm Ned Stark's bastard, and this is my armour!

Bloodraven. You must know. There are high stakes and your presence can turn the odds against the Others.

Jon Snow: I'm baseborn, and I am worthless in other people eyes!

Bloodraven: Your destiny is at hand, and you must know the truth--

Jon Snow: Mance Ryder's blood is no more royal than mine own. Mel wants king's blood, and I am no king.

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There is another possibility, one I was trying to comment on previously.



Aegon and Jon Snow might be in fact full brothers, both from R+L.



Lyanna received the crown at the tournament of Harrenhal from Rhaegar Targaryen, the tournament was in 281 and Lyanna was "absconded" not long after that. It is possible she and Rhaegar were already involved and she might have been pregnant at the time. Elia had a *very* difficult pregnancy with her daughter and was thought unable to survive another one. Both would be under intense pressure to produce a male heir. It would be easy to coerce staff and servants to dress her up as being pregnant while hiding Lyanna somewhere on the castle grounds. Aegon is born about a year later in 282, and he could very easily have been nursed by someone else on the castle grounds with Elia made to look like the mother in question. She might not be thrilled but actually risking another pregnancy could kill her and possibly the child as well. Lyanna then disappears to the Tower of Joy where she and Rhaegar conceive a second child shortly thereafter, Ned finds her after the latter is delivered and is made aware of the entire situation - his promise is not to say anything and to protect the only living heir since Aegon is thought to have died at the sack of King's Landing. Lyanna is thus mother to the heir(s) of the Iron Throne and given both her own statue in the crypts, a rare honor for those not actually Lords of Winterfell, with her bones placed inside of it (also covering up any evidence that she had child(ren)). Thus we might see each of the three heads of the dragon competing for the Iron Throne separately.


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