it all hinges on summerhall

[craftadvisory]

spoilers to all 5 main books and all 3 dunk and egg books..

the alleged story of the targaryen castle, summerhall, as told by barristan selmy and in part by alester florent, is that egg (aegon V) dunk (ser duncan the tall) and prince duncan targaryen (egg's son) attempt to hatch dragons from multiple eggs but end up dying in a mysterious fire.

the theory (and TL;DR) -

up to three dragons hatched at summerhall with aid from the ghost of high heart (see #3.5.) a cover up was necessary for reasons yet to be revealed (most likely a threat to dragons lives.) aegon v's third son (see #1) and/or prince duncan (and possibly aegon v himself,) are forced to flee into the nearby mountains of dorne with one, two, possibly even 3 baby dragons. for whatever reason said party lays low with dragons in mountains for extended period of time.dragons are tamed and hidden by surviving targaryens.

aegon v's third son or prince duncan (or son of either) is still alive with dragons to this day (during adwd.) they will come into the main story NOT as a dues ex machina but as a grand plot twist. (perhaps against a greyjoy taming one of danaerys dragons with valyrian horn OR a massive attack by the Others)

seems crazy right? dont break out the tin foil hats yet.

below are many reasons/justifications with quotes...

1 aegon v (egg) had four children (duncan, jaehaerys II, "unknown" son, rhaella)

"All three of the sons of the fifth Aegon had wed for love, in defiance of their father’s wishes." - Barristan Selmy

1.5 moqorro speaks of an "old" dragon in ADWD (every targaryen we've been introduced to except maester aemon is young)

"Dragons," Moqorro said in the Common Tongue of Westeros... "Dragons old and young, true and false, bright and dark. And you. A small man with a big shadow, snarling in the midst of all." - Moqorro talking to Tyrion Lannister

2 maestor aemon died at the age of 102. aegon was his younger brother, therefor his sons "unknown" and prince duncan (or even their sons) could still be alive (albeit duncan and unknown would be older men. five or so years older than selmy is a good approximation. remember members of the family have shown to live for an exceptionally long time)

*3 aegon v, ser duncan the tall and prince duncan allegedly DIED in a fire at summerhall that failed to hatch dragons eggs (no mention of what happened to these eggs has surfaced since and the events of summerhall have been left purposefully vague)

"Treason and turmoil followed, as night follows day, ending at Summerhall in sorcery, fire, and grief." - Barristan Selmy

"Did we learn nothing from Summerhall? No good has ever come from these dreams of dragons..." - Alester Florent

"Only death may pay for life." - Mirri Maz Duur

3.5 we know the woods witch (a child of the forest with rare red eye color (most children of forest have gold eyes)) AKA the ghost of high heart, used her magic at summerhall and that lives were lost.. she referenced it while speaking Arya Stark.

“I see you, wolf child. Blood child. I thought it was the lord who smelled of death...you are cruel to come to my hill, cruel. I gorged on grief at Summerhall, I need none of yours. Begone from here, dark heart." - Ghost of High Heart (a Storm of Swords)

4 danaerys targaryen LIVED in a fire that hatched dragon eggs (george has said blood magic played a part here, perhaps the sorcery from the woods witch played the same roll at summerhall)

5 more than three dragon eggs existed post dragon extinction (eight or more)

"No, but there are eggs. The last dragon left a clutch of five, and they have more on Dragonstone, old ones from before the Dance. My brothers all have them too. Aerion's looks as though it's made of gold and silver, with veins of fire running through it. Mine is white and green, all swirly." Aegon V (egg)

6 daemon blackfyre has three dreams in "the mystery knight". so far two of these dreams have reflected future events.

"I dreamed that you were all in white from head to heel, with a long pale cloak flowing from those broad shoulders. You were a White Sword, ser, a Sworn Brother of the Kingsguard, the greatest knight in all the Seven Kingdoms, and you lived for no other purpose but to guard and serve and please your king."- Daemon Blackfyre II

"I hope you will put more faith in what I tell you when you see the dragon hatch."

"A dragon will hatch? A living dragon? What, here?"

"I dreamed it. This pale white castle, you, a dragon bursting from an egg, I dreamed it all, just as I once dreamed of my brothers lying dead. They were twelve and I was only seven, so they laughed at me, and died. I am two-and-twenty now, and I trust my dreams." - Daemon Blackfyre II speaking to Ser Duncan the Tall

7 aegon v slept with a dragon egg in his crib

"I'd show you mine, ser, but it's at Summerhall."

"Yours? Your dragon's egg?" Dunk frowned down at the boy, wondering if this was some jape. "Where did it come from?"

"From a dragon, ser. They put it in my cradle." - Aegon V

8 maester aemon references both dragons and his brother in the delirium leading up to his death

9 rhaegar often visited summerhall and reflected on the events, even though he never personally knew those who died there

"It was the shadow of Summerhall that haunted him, was it not?"

"Yes. And yet Summerhall was the place the prince loved best.He would go there from time to time, with only his harp as company. Even the knights of the Kingsguard did not attend him there. He liked to sleep in the ruined hall, beneath the moon and stars, and whenever he came back he would always bring a song." - Barristan Selmy talking to Daenerys Targaryen

10 the dragon has three heads. could a lost targaryen uncle exist? (our list of targaryen candidates would now include - danaerys, young aegon, possibly jon snow, possibly alive aegon v's son "unknown", possibly alive prince duncan, perhaps even possibly alive son of aerion targaryen (where is aerion targaryens son? could it be varys?! ;)), and most unlikely but still possibly alive aegon v (he would be about as old as measter aemon.)

my main motivations for this theory are six-fold-

first, one can tell from reading dunk and egg that aegon v and ser duncan the tall are characters george has respect for. its doubtful he would kill them off and chalk it up to a misguided attempt at hatching dragons. they are special, righteous characters.

second, isn't it curious that danaerys can hatch her eggs in a fire while another worthy targaryen (aegon v or prince duncan) cant?(magic, fire and deaths were involved in both situations)

third, even if the characters said to have died at summerhall are truly dead (aegon v,ser duncan, and prince duncan), the unknown son is still left alive after three lives have been sacrificed in a fire with dragon eggs and magic at play (dany sacrificed khal drogo, mini maz durr, and her child)

fourth, children of the forest are very rare and their magic mostly gone from westeros. why have this witch/child of the forest (with red eyes (meaning favored by gods)) be involved in summerhall unless her sorcery or blood magic was there to play a significant role.

fifth, aegon v's unknown son referenced by selmy is such a giant question mark. whats the deal with the unknown son?!

sixth, to have events in dunk and egg impact the main series would be a great incentive to read the novellas.

holes (and some possible solutions to those holes) in my theory-

-red gods magic started working better after danys dragons were born (however magic wasn't completely dead before danys dragons were born..it got stronger after her dragons were born. if dragons are tied to the magic in the world perhaps any magic at all gives credence to the existence of other dragons besides danaerys)

-why would living targaryens with dragons stand by and watch their family lose a kingdom?

-aemon says that aegon v, duncan are dead..but a fire, involving sorcery, loss of life and dragon eggs is fishy! (unknown son has never been said to be dead)

"My brothers dreamed of dragons too, and the dreams killed them, every one. Sam, we tremble on the cusp of half-remembered prophecies." - Maester Aemon

[The Dragon has three heads]

Some well thought out and referenced thoughts here. I've been unable to get the novellas where I live but have always assumed-and hoped-they would tie into the wider story arc.

Having not read them I can only concur with some of your holes, ie why would any other targs not step up and defend the crown-Aemon was sworn to the citadel and the NW, could there be other orders/religions tht would forstall them revealing himself?

Or could there be someone above varys an illyrio pulling the strings?

The idea of Varys being related to the targs is intriguing, but why was he sold into slavery unless he was lost to them or there was another plot to make him disappear...seems a stretch.

[Rantz]

Are we certain the "woods witch" of High Heart is actually a COTF? I am doubtful of that. Just be ause she has red eyes?

[The Dragon has three heads]

Could she be a halfy?

[Bayard]

6 daemon blackfyre has three dreams in "the mystery knight". so far two of these dreams have reflected future events.

Why only 2? :) the Blackfyre brothers are dead, Duncan was a white knight and that night a dragon was born. Aegon V is a dragon, over and over again we see that Targaryens are associated with dragons in dreams. Come on, even Bloodraven thinks the same, that Aegon is the dragon from the prophecy. A dragon will hatch from an EGG?? It's obvious.

I grant you, you made a very good job gathering all those dragon quotes, but simply putting them one after another shows nothing. There is no indication that what you say is real. And only because "Dany did it, then why didn't Aegon as well" is.... how to put it, wishful thinking, the Targaryens had been trying for a century to hatch eggs and they all failed...

Something did happen at Summerhall, and I agree with you, that GRRM will not make all 3 of them, Egg, Duncan and Duncan the Small look like idiots. Maybe he will make an accident, a sabotage, just maybe he will show that the hatching works... but even if there were dragons there, either they died soon after or are not in Westeros anymore. It's impossible to hide a full grown dragon... and they would be over 50 years old, already huge. Anyhow, you start your entire theory from the concept that somehow these hidden dragons will appear to save the day, to help Dany, whatever.... that is a huge Deus ex machina, bigger than all the others in ASOIAF combined. It will never happen!! And to add to that, GRRM will not connect Dunk & Egg stories in such a strong manner with ASOIAF, simply because ASOIAF is the main story, and many many people haven't read Dunk & Egg. The connection goes the other way around. We do get small easter eggs, like same info on Bloodraven, the connection between Dunk and Brienne, but not essential stuff.

[KingMaekarWasHere]

Great stuff, I just read Barristan's quote and I need to know what happened at Summerhall. I know that Robert was there too during the rebellion cause of the Battle of Summerhall, but even though Baratheons are descendents of Egg, they seem to lack knowledge of Valyria, dragons, ect. I do believe that Prince Duncan and Jenny of Oldstones were killed though, the Ghost was Jenny's mother after all wasn't she? I suspect that Aerys or his father Jaeherys may have played a secret role in dispatching Prince Duncan, more so Aerys due to his natural insanity. Remember that while he was Egg's grandson, Aerys was an adult by the time Egg died, that's important to remember. And at times Aerys seemed just as ruthless as Tywin, perhaps that's why the two of them bonded, cause both thought that they were the best of their families? Cough....cough.....Not. Anyway it wouldn't surprise me if the Blackfyres still lived somewhere, maybe even hidden in plain site? And what about Daeron the Drunk's feeble witted daughter? I suspect that she was cast aside and married a minor nobleman. I suspect that Littlefinger has her blood, oh the irony! But if Littlefinger and Varys both have dragon blood, it would certainly explain their love of scheming and their want of conquest of the Seven Kingdoms, maybe they both want to be king? But to finish my post, the Targaryens are far from gone, and while Daenerys may be the last legitimate descendent of Aerys, Aerys had cousins, uncles, aunts, ect., and you better believe that several families in Westeros have dragon blood. Even Robert did, and he loathed them! But we all know that Robert had a list of problems besides the hatred for his cousins' house. See ya later guys.

[Black Mike Secret]

At first I was skeptical, but as I read it just made more sense. I don't agree with everything, but I definitely think more of Summerhall now than before I read this post.

Great job.

[Aderyn the Sly]

I don't know if I believe that Aegon and his sons are alive (with Dragons no less!) I do agree there is more to the story of Summerhall that we have yet to learn. (Although I LOVE this theory) Maybe the Dunk & Egg storyline will reveal more and that's why GRRM said that the She-Wolfs of Winterfell story won't be published until after WoW and the rest of the Dunk & Egg books will have to wait (he said about a dozen, doesn't he?).

[mindchap]

Nice work, and as much as I would love for any of them to be alive I doubt that we will be that lucky. The grief that the Ghost of Highheart expresses seems genuine to me. But there is plenty of support that dragons have and do exist elsewhere in the world throughout the duration of the novels, mainly Bloodraven's vision that he shows Bran and the fact that magic seems stronger the closer you get to Asshai. Plus the fact that GRRM suggests that there could be dragons, just not within view of any of the characters, with the above exception. An Egg Jr or an Egg III would be cool though.

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

This is a good theory but I think there are too many secret targs atm

[Whitering]

I find it really hard to believe one is alive that Aemon didn't know about, or that didn't run to Dany as soon as they heard she has dragons, and the only reason Aemon hadn't heard is because he was stuck at the Wall, but you can bet anyone close to a shipping point like White Harbour, Oldtown and elsewhere where merchants travel from such towns, people have heard of Dany and her dragons.

[Knights of Ni]

The woodswitch was only friends with Jenny.

A dragon already in Westeros is a point of speculation. The Smoke creature that Summer sees as Winterfell is burned. Also the Great stone beast bursting from a tower vision from the house of the undying.

Gave me the thought that Jenny was the sacrifice for the dragon.

[Aderyn the Sly]

Nice work, and as much as I would love for any of them to be alive I doubt that we will be that lucky. The grief that the Ghost of Highheart expresses seems genuine to me. But there is plenty of support that dragons have and do exist elsewhere in the world throughout the duration of the novels, mainly Bloodraven's vision that he shows Bran and the fact that magic seems stronger the closer you get to Asshai. Plus the fact that GRRM suggests that there could be dragons, just not within view of any of the characters, with the above exception. An Egg Jr or an Egg III would be cool though.

Maybe her grief was for Jenny, who was the one that brought her to the royal family. Its possible she died to give the dragons life along with others. (only death can pay for life). I don't really buy this theory, but its not the craziest I heard around here. :) And GRRM said that the Targaryens were the only NOBLE family from Valyaria with dragons, so there's another explanation.

[mindchap]

Maybe her grief was for Jenny, who was the one that brought her to the royal family. Its possible she died to give the dragons life along with others. (only death can pay for life). I don't really buy this theory, but its not the craziest I heard around here. :) And GRRM said that the Targaryens were the only NOBLE family from Valyaria with dragons, so there's another explanation.

My biggest bugaboo with the whole thing is that the novels will end long before D&E get to Summerhall and GRRM doesn't seem to like to spoil one with the other, so unless he's going to write 6 or 7 D&Es before DoS comes out then I can't see this coming to light in the novels.

[Ser Uncle P]

if D&E managed to hatch dragons at Summerhall, they'd be long grown to maturity and almost impossible to hide, even in Dorne.

[Ludd]

Clearly Summerhall is important and in some way balances Winterfell.

The Morning star of the Daynes seems to balance the Even star of Briennne

But how I have no idea

Regarding secret (or not so secret Targs) we know that there is a son of the cruel Aerion lurking somewhere. He would be perhaps 80 or so and could have descendents. My theory is that Darkstar is his descendent- perhaps via a daughter.

Now I know it is a strange twist but I think the next King of the Iron throne will be Bronn. Think what may have happened to the halfwit daughter. Marries to a minor lord in near Kings landing - Stookeworth perhaps. Now who perhaps has inherited a gene for lack of wits. Lolys Stokeworth

[Ludd]

Also there is the third son of Aegon, who must be around somewhere - he would be perhaps 50 or so - Egg married late I think .

So we do not have to look far to find actual Targs not secret ones, just ones that have been deliberately bypassed.

[Ser Carson]

I believe they probably did hatch dragons, but summerhall being, so close to Oldtown and the citadel I bet the Maesters and perhaps the Hightowers came killed everyone and then covered it up. The third son is probably about as important as Tywins missing brother, Gerion.

They are both just hanging out in Valyria with all the Dragons! :drunk: :hat: :thumbsup:

[Pecan]

I don't really buy this theory, but I do think the unknown son of Aegon V is an important mystery. Also, if I'm not mistaken, it's never been revealed who Aegon V's queen was. That could be important as well.