How realistic was the Red Wedding?

[The Monkey]

Been thinking about this, and I can't wrap my head around how the Freys and Boltons managed to keep the RW a secret. It wasn't just an inner circle that knew about it, every one of their soldiers were in on the plan. We're talking about 6000-7000 men who all drank and socialized with their would-be victims for hours before the attack, and not one spilled the beans. The had fought with the Stark loyalist troops for over a year at that point, and friendships must've developed between a lot of them, but not one of them had any quarrel with murdering their friends at the blink of an eye.

I realize it had to happen for plot-purposes, but that whole story almost seemed contrived to me.

[SeanF]

I doubt if most of the Frey and Bolton soldiers were in on the plan. They simply received orders from their commanders to kill.

[Light a wight tonight]

It's not realistic. In the words of Areo Hotah, somebody always tells. Whether word would have gotten up the chain of command to Robb, and if he'd have believed it, that's another story. And the Stark/Tully party was predisposed to taking all insults as the price for crossing, so it might have been discounted.

[The Lord's Kiss]

I think only the top tier Freys knew about it, and the bottom-level ones just had to go along with what their lord had decided once the fighting started. The tents burned, one of them contained solely Northmen, so there would be no Freys there anyway, but the Riverlands tent is trickier. How would they have gotten all the Freys out without it looking suspicious? Maybe they were all in the Twins. But I would guess the great majority of them did not know anything until the Rains of Castamere started playing, then they followed their liege lord.

[maximilian]

That bothered me as well. There were 3000 Dreadfort men, 500 Karstark men and as many Frey men that had orders to start killing at the signal, after drinking and partying with the other Northmen and Riverlanders for hours.

It's hard to believe that they all shut their mouth and pulling something like that off without giving orders beforehand

seems unbelievable to me, too.

[The BlackBear]

Not so sure about men at arms but they certainly removed Freys they considered couldn't be trusted to stick to the plan.

I think if you have a small number of knights prepared, they can cut through a much larger group of drunk, unprepared men. Therefore there was no need to tell that many men, the Men at arms would get out the way or die as well. There was certainly a fair amount of collateral damage I'd assume.

[KARMAgrinder]

The foot soldiers never know the plan. They just follow orders. I don't feel the Red Wedding was contrived at all. The higher ranking Frey's felt betrayed by Robb's marriage, I'm sure many of them wanted revenge just like Walder and saw no true promise in Robb gaining the Iron Throne.

[Victor227]

When the massacre started, most of the common soldiers probably didn't know anything other than that a battle had started, and they were in the middle of it. Lothar Frey and Roose Bolton did most of the ground-work, and that probably just included putting everyone in position and rigging the tents.When the fight did start, they'd just be expected to act like it.

That aside, I do think it's unrealistic that Robb didn't get -some- form of word about it. One of the crossbowmen for instance, might have come to him, or some man-at-arms who'd overheard the plot and had some sort of loyalty to the Starks during the campaign. Even if it was to one of Robb's officers outside the castle instead, keeping a secret like that seems impossible.

[SeanF]

In the Theon chapter of TWOW, Stannis discovers the plot by Arnolf Karstark and his sons to betray him to the Boltons. He's asked if the Karstarks' soldiers know anything about it, and says, no, they would never entrust such information to their men, who might let it slip, but who could be relied on to do as their lords commanded. I imagine that the same thing happened at the Red Wedding.

[Alexander Stark]

You can see with the sellsword companies when Dany does her thing in Slavers Bay that only the top dogs really know what goes on, the soldiers just have to follow what theyre told at the moment the battle starts, or turns

[MrsManderly]

It is so realistic, that the same actually happened in history - St Bartholomew's Day Massacre anyone?

1572. The French (Catholic) king Charles IX invited the great and good of the Huguenots (French Protestants) to Paris for the wedding of Henri III of Navarre (the lead Protestant nobleman) to Princess Margot (the king's Catholic sister). After the wedding while all the guests were drunk, the leading Huguenot noblemen were slaughtered by the Catholics, which spilled into broader mob violence against the Protestants throughout Paris. Death estimates range from 5,000 upwards. Henri himself was spared, held hostage at Charles' court and forced to convert to Catholicism.

Sound familiar?

What happened next was that Henri managed to outlive Charles IX and his two brothers (all died in quick succession in suspicious circumstances) and become Hernri IV arguably the greatest king France has had, who significantly grew its power, made Paris the metropolis it is today and passed the Edict of Nantes promoting religious freedom in France.

Oops... maybe those Edmure will be king theorists are on to something?

PS - If anyone's interested there's a great film featuring this event called "La Reine Margot", "Queen Margot", based on the novel of same name by Victor Hugo

[Tony Soprano]

I don't think the Frey soldiers knew what was going to happen. They were just told to be ready, that something was going to happen, but they didn't know what specifically.

[Chaircat Meow]

The Stark troops were drunk, disarmed and unsuspecting and the Bolton and Frey forces were not necessarily told what was going to happen in as many words. Their loyalty will have been to their lords and they didn't need to react all at once, or with enthusiasm to butcher Robb's men who were sitting ducks anyway. They were for the most part probably in separate camps and tents and had very limited contact with each other before things got interesting.

[Frey Pie]

To a certain level its unrealistic. If it was just the lords in the Twins that were killed that would be fine. But for common soldiers to turn on the men they had been killing and dieing for in such a large scale seems unrealistic

[Chaircat Meow]

To a certain level its unrealistic. If it was just the lords in the Twins that were killed that would be fine. But for common soldiers to turn on the men they had been killing and dieing for in such a large scale seems unrealistic

But the men they used hadn't been with Robb since the split at the Twins and Roose had pissed away nearly all the non-Dreadfort men.

[Tysha Lannister]

I'm sure many of them wanted revenge just like Walder and saw no true promise in Robb gaining the Iron Throne.

Just to clarify, Robb wasn't after the Iron Throne. He wanted the North to become its own entity.

[DaveSnow House Stark]

It is a bit sensationalistic but not unbelievable. Again, the common man will be following orders once the bloodshed begins. Those same soldiers may have been building up hate for the Starks since Robb's wedding. After all they were following a true and honorable man who dishondered their Lords.

[SeanF]

It is a bit sensationalistic but not unbelievable. Again, the common man will be following orders once the bloodshed begins. Those same soldiers may have been building up hate for the Starks since Robb's wedding. After all they were following a true and honorable man who dishondered their Lords.

I imagine some judicious propaganda against the Starks would have been planted among the Frey men. They would have mostly agreed that their lord had been dishonoured by Robb Stark's behaviour.

[ellisg]

Well it wasn't unbelievable. The plan was kept within the top people. Then the soldiers could just follow orders given. It's not like there was any love lost. The reason Robb didn't get word of it is because he didn't have a Varys.

[Lady Sansa Stark]

We're talking about the Freys here, the most despised family of Westeros along with the Boltons.

And, as some people say, the soldiers didn't know, but once they started killing, they just went along with them.