how inteligent is a dragon

[rodrik Cassel]

I like dogs.

[the Scorpion Knight]

Actually, according to most studies I've seen, that's false.

Ironically, typical cat behaviour (independance, aloofness, etc.) vs. typical dog (needing attention, excitable, wanting to please) are interpreted as a cat being more intelligent because, in humans, that's how we tend to read those things. Dogs are forever running around doing 'dumb' things, cats are cooly sitting back and raising an eyebrow at that dumb dog and his goings on.

But that's a perception through a flawed assumption. Neither being is anywhere near human intelligence, so behaviour prompts to our recognition of intelligence are just superfcial misdirection.

According to brain-size to body-size and expected need to sustain bodily functions for that size quotient (EQ), the standard means with which we compare contrasting species for 'intelligence', dogs rank quite a bit higher. Additionally, when it comes to complex action functionalibility, dogs also rank much higher. Hence, no seeing-eye cats, or 'police cats' or the like. And when it comes to the compexity of social behaviour, again a key in making this distinction, dogs again outperform cats.

And although the distinction is higher when contrasting domesticated versions of these species, it also applies to the wilder forms. Coordination for cat-species as hunters is impressive, but wild dogs and linked species are even more advanced. (When they hunt, primates even more so, continuing to fit into the EQ scale that ranks animals along the lines we'd expect; humans, then apes, then dolphins, then elephants, etc.)

I love both animals, and have owned a cat but never a dog, so I don't have a horse in his race, but the evidence that dogs are smarter than cats is pretty telling, and even more interesting is the reflections of human behavior' (as we perceive them) that fool us into thinking it's the reverse. Cool cat vs. 'yup, we're going to the zoo, yup yup' dog.

also worth of mention: donkeys are smarter than horses

[Some Random Peasant]

He's playing World of Warcraft instead of writing??? I guess that would explain why the pace of new books slowed down so much after 2004...

/jk

That totally explains it!

[Shoemaker]

I think they are special like the stark's direwolves

I don't. While Drogon does have a connection to Dany, I think that's due more to imprinting than any supernatural bond. Nowhere in Dany's POV does she have any kind of experience close to what the Starks have with their direwolves, i.e. when they're actually warging them.

I only meant that they are more than the average animal. Not that they are like the trustworthy direwolf who is one with your soul. But they do warn dany when they don't like someone and they seem to be a supernatural blessing. Similar to how the stark's received their wolves from the old gods. Right after the comet appeared dany walked into the flames and became a mother to dragons. Now they aren't a direct parrallel but it is similar that it was fate that they received the animals. So that's why I say they are more than just animals similar to the stark's direwolves.

How is the direwolvevs (except as a possible supernatural blessing, which the dragons too could be called) more special than any other animals a skinschanger could warg into? I always figured that the reason why Dany and any other southerner (take Willas with hawks, hounds and horses) don't suddenly just enter the minds of their "pets" is because they're andals/valaryians/rhoynars. Warging seems pretty limited to the the descendants of the First Men. So what would make the Stark children more special wargs than lets say Orell or Varamyr Sixskins? And wouldn't the fact that Dany, who is of confirmed Andal/Valaryian descent, is likely to be incapable of warging, make her relationship with her dragons, especially Drogon, more special? (Maybe there is something to the Targaryen's "the blood of the dragon"?)... Anyways, it struck me while writing this. Would anybody really want Dany (or anyone else) to warg with the dragons? From what we could glean from Varamyr's POV skinchangers adopt some of the characteristics of the animal they warg into (if you stay in the skin of deer you eventually become a coward, etc).

Sorry if I got anything wrong, by the way. The mechanisms of warging confuses me, and I hope it will be explained when GRRM finishes playing WOW.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

How is the direwolvevs (except as a possible supernatural blessing, which the dragons too could be called) more special than any other animals a skinschanger could warg into? I always figured that the reason why Dany and any other southerner (take Willas with hawks, hounds and horses) don't suddenly just enter the minds of their "pets" is because they're andals/valaryians/rhoynars. Warging seems pretty limited to the the descendants of the First Men. So what would make the Stark children more special wargs than lets say Orell or Varamyr Sixskins? And wouldn't the fact that Dany, who is of confirmed Andal/Valaryian descent, is likely to be incapable of warging, make her relationship with her dragons, especially Drogon, more special? (Maybe there is something to the Targaryen's "the blood of the dragon"?)... Anyways, it struck me while writing this. Would anybody really want Dany (or anyone else) to warg with the dragons? From what we could glean from Varamyr's POV skinchangers adopt some of the characteristics of the animal they warg into (if you stay in the skin of deer you eventually become a coward, etc).

Sorry if I got anything wrong, by the way. The mechanisms of warging confuses me, and I hope it will be explained when GRRM finishes playing WOW.

The direwolfes (at least our litter of warged ones) have a somewhat telepathic connection over thousands of miles.

[Shoemaker]

The direwolfes (at least our litter of warged ones) have a somewhat telepathic connection over thousands of miles.

Yes, but cannot that be attributed to the Stark children being pretty special wargs, and not the other way around?

[Bright Blue Eyes]

Yes, but cannot that be attributed to the Stark children being pretty special wargs, and not the other way around?

Could be.

[The Great Walrus]

I think there intelligence is on the same level with extremely smart dogs, such as Border Collies and Golden Retirevers.

[the Scorpion Knight]

I think there intelligence is on the same level with extremely smart dogs, such as Border Collies and Golden Retirevers.

higher more like elephants and chimpanzes ( viserions tunnel the rarity of the rarity of consumption of human flesh)

[The Great Walrus]

higher more like elephants and chimpanzes ( viserions tunnel the rarity of the rarity of consumption of human flesh)

No offense intended Scorpion Knight, but why exactly do you condiser them not consuming human flesh a sign of there intelligence?

[The Mother of The Others]

Public school kids would probably have a tough time beating dragons in standardized testing.

[Lord Liam DarkStark]

How is the direwolvevs (except as a possible supernatural blessing, which the dragons too could be called) more special than any other animals a skinschanger could warg into? I always figured that the reason why Dany and any other southerner (take Willas with hawks, hounds and horses) don't suddenly just enter the minds of their "pets" is because they're andals/valaryians/rhoynars. Warging seems pretty limited to the the descendants of the First Men. So what would make the Stark children more special wargs than lets say Orell or Varamyr Sixskins? And wouldn't the fact that Dany, who is of confirmed Andal/Valaryian descent, is likely to be incapable of warging, make her relationship with her dragons, especially Drogon, more special? (Maybe there is something to the Targaryen's "the blood of the dragon"?)... Anyways, it struck me while writing this. Would anybody really want Dany (or anyone else) to warg with the dragons? From what we could glean from Varamyr's POV skinchangers adopt some of the characteristics of the animal they warg into (if you stay in the skin of deer you eventually become a coward, etc).

Sorry if I got anything wrong, by the way. The mechanisms of warging confuses me, and I hope it will be explained when GRRM finishes playing WOW.

They only breathe fire. That's not special. Not at all. And she is a part of them. They react with her similar to the direwolves. Sure maybe she can't go inside them but her bond with the dragons is still clear. She only needs to be around them for them to recognize and love her. They a are a mythical creature anyway you cut it. They are special. Like griffens harpies or sphinxes. All I'm saying is they are more than the average animal. I don't even know why warging has anything to do with their intelligance. I think if the dragons were warged into they would create a similar bond as the direwolves do

[Shoemaker]

They only breathe fire. That's not special. Not at all. And she is a part of them. They react with her similar to the direwolves. Sure maybe she can't go inside them but her bond with the dragons is still clear. She only needs to be around them for them to recognize and love her. They a are a mythical creature anyway you cut it. They are special. Like griffens harpies or sphinxes. All I'm saying is they are more than the average animal. I don't even know why warging has anything to do with their intelligance. I think if the dragons were warged into they would create a similar bond as the direwolves do

I actually I wasn't arguing one way or another (neither for the topic of their intelligence or the topic of who was most special). I was commenting on both your and Apple Martini, raising questions that I thought was relevant to both your post in the hope of developing the discussion. The reason I brought up warging was because that is what is the cause of the supernatural bond Apple Martini mentions in her post (, and as I interpreted Apple Martini's post, the source of the Stark children's more special experiences with the direwolves. Additionally if the Starks' warging is the cause of the direwolves' "specialness", then how does this make them any different than for example Orrel's owl? I actually raised the question (with the premise that warging is limited to the First Men) whether the probability of Dany being incapable of warging would make the dragons more "special".

So no need for sarcasm. Just read the post ;)

[Bushido]

Tyrion doesn't seem to think highly of them - as far as training goes.

[Lars Penry]

I suspect they aren't as intelligent as the Direwolves. Or at least more wild, though their tame nature and intelligence could likely be a by product of warging.