33 replies to this topic

[vjott]

jons nissa, on 25 December 2012 - 10:01 AM, said:

the high septon probably did the happy dance for an hour after cersei said they could rearm themselves if they forgot about the debt. being allowed to arm themselves and be able to enforce their will was worth every cent, as i believe cersei will realize in the next book.

that was a really big one. and many posters have already mentioned others.

The sad thing is that I don't think that Cersei will face the full repercussions for her decisions because she

Spoiler

is a prisoner and will most likely be replaced soon, leaving better people to clean up her mess.

[Bad Hound!]

Classic piece of dialogue between Cersei and Margaery (haven't got the book with me so it's not the exact words):

Cersei: "Now if you've excuse me, I've got a kingdom to run"
Margaery: "Just the one, your Grace? What about the other 6?"

Margaery 1 Cersei 0

[tom_saxon]

In addition to what has already been mentioned, Cerseis primary mistake is making everything about Cersei and not the realm.  I believe even Tywin felt in his heart of hearts that every he did was for the improvement of the realm, and he could probably even make a good argument for why.  Cersei could never make that argument and when faced with having to would simply make a cutting jape or threaten death against who questioned her.

Her other mistake (kind of stemming from the above though) was her being so absolutely blind to the situation of the "small folk".  You have to at least have them cowed.  When they are bold enough to express their misery via military force (religious orders), it means something is going terribly wrong.   A Feast for Crows is all about the "crows" picking apart the festering remains of westros- that cersei simply didn't comprehend the scale or depth of misery, the damage done to the foundation (the peasant), and that she was not the queen of a viable empire/kingdom shows how short sighted she is.

It is all about Cersei.  She makes me think of the mother and wife of a large family who sees events not in terms of how they affect her family, but in terms of how they affect her as a person, mainly her pride.  

Edited by tom_saxon, 01 February 2013 - 04:58 AM.

[jotabe1789]

tom_saxon, on 01 February 2013 - 04:56 AM, said:

In addition to what has already been mentioned, Cerseis primary mistake is making everything about Cersei and not the realm.  I believe even Tywin felt in his heart of hearts that every he did was for the improvement of the realm, and he could probably even make a good argument for why.

A very good argument, in fact. He brought many years of peace and prosperity to Westeros. And surely he was just as harsh when it needed be.
It is known.

Quote

Cersei could never make that argument and when faced with having to would simply make a cutting jape or threaten death against who questioned her.

It makes me laugh when she thinks to herself that at least, she's being a better queen than Robert was king. At least Robert had the good sense to put competent people in the small council (so he could go hunting/drinking/bastard-making), while Cersei bases those appointments on her small-minded schemes.

Edited by jotabe1789, 01 February 2013 - 05:24 AM.

[lavalam-003]

Yea, as mentioned pretty much everything Cersei did was a huge mistake and it was all driven out of fear of losing control.

tom_saxon, on 01 February 2013 - 04:56 AM, said:

In addition to what has already been mentioned, Cerseis primary mistake is making everything about Cersei and not the realm.

I agree and disagree.  I agree in the sense that she never did anything for the better of the realm.  However one redeeming quality this women has is that everything she does she "thinks" she is doing for a better tomorrow for her children.  She was blind to Jofferys madness, and is certainly blind to Tommen innocence.  Overall Cersei is just a sad charecter in the end, she has the cunningness, determination, and sterness of Twyin, but not the respect, knowledge, or fearfulness (outside of being a queen, Twyin was never a king or queen but he struck fear in everyone) of Twyin.

From the start of GOT to the middle of AFFC I despised all of the Lannisters (beside Tryion, he is truly only doing what he thinks is best and looking out for his family), however Cersei's downfall opens the door for a good hearted Kevin to lead an innocent Tommen and redeem their family name.  Also Jamie is growing on me very quickly, and as stated Tryion is one of my favortie charecters.

[BreadSalt&Wine]

I'm just starting AFFC, so I'm unaware of the NEW stupid decisions Cersie has made. I'm still laughing at her reaction to finding Shae in her father's bed. Cersei really believe her father hasn't touched a women since her mother died? Really? Come on...she is smarter than that! hahahahaha!!!

[rponeil]

Lion of Judah, on 14 December 2012 - 08:45 PM, said:

Rearming the faith, hiring Qyburn and her accusations against Margery.

I agree with pretty much everything everyone is saying, but the Qyburn thing is certainly a big mistake.  I think this is going to come back to bit her in a really big way.  I also found it almost comically tragic how she would be saying in her own mind how proud her father would be with her right now and she is the only real lion.  She is way to vain, paranoid, and over all idiotic to even realize that she is the worst of all the lions and pretty much why everything sucks in the realm.  Yeah, I pretty much loath Cersei.

[GrandPanjandrum]

Giving the "Church" an army wasn't the brightest thing for a Queen to do.  It hadn't been done since Aegon's Conquest...and was well regretted.  But, look at it from another perspective.  Dany called Drogo her "Sun and Stars."  Once again, we have only the slightest morsel of historical reference. And, as usual, it seems to be inaccurate.

It's my opinion that the term "Sun and Stars," should actually be "Son and Stars."  It references The Warrior's Sons...and their insignia (a seven sided star).  It is a beggar's army.  Dany is a beggar's queen.

Queen Cercie just allowed a proclaimation that will form an army for the coming of dragons.

[Rafael da Silva]

Cercei makes just one big mistake, which is to believe that she knows how to read people an situations the same way as her father did.

So she mistakes her foes and allies until the point that she believes that everyone is an enemy at the same time that everyone is "eating on her hands" (as she is Queen Regent).

In the end the problem is her arrogance.

The problem is that unlike her father (or even Jaime) she never left the comfort of a Castle, never saw what we call "the real world". Her father knew how to win wars (which she doesn't, because in fact she never fought one), but more important he knew how to deal with his enemies and allies after the fight, to make them remain at his side and prevent future struggles. Tywin Lanniester was a hard man, but he was also wise enough to see that he couldn't rule a kingdom without friends.

Edited by Rafael da Silva, 28 February 2013 - 02:08 PM.

[ChillinLikeSerIlyn]

Volantis, on 12 October 2012 - 12:02 PM, said:

Never thought Pycelle would turn out the good guy.

I don't know if Pycelle is really a good guy, he 's just the sharpest tool in the very dull shed of Cersai's council.

[King Renly's Peach]

I think her biggest mistake was trusting the Kettleblacks, and thinking they were hers while in reality they were Littlefinger's men all along.

[LampreyPie]

BreadSalt&Wine, on 21 February 2013 - 08:45 AM, said:

I'm just starting AFFC, so I'm unaware of the NEW stupid decisions Cersie has made. I'm still laughing at her reaction to finding Shae in her father's bed. Cersei really believe her father hasn't touched a women since her mother died? Really? Come on...she is smarter than that! hahahahaha!!!

Something about that really doesn't sit right with me. I would believe that Tywin hadn't touched a woman since Joanna died. He loved her deeply and so much of the person that he's become by the events of the novel are a result of her dying. Pieces of him died with her and he rarely smiled after she went. I just don't really think Tywin actually was sleeping with Shae. I think Varys manipulated that situation.

[FOREVERALONE]

LampreyPie, on 06 May 2013 - 05:34 PM, said:

Something about that really doesn't sit right with me. I would believe that Tywin hadn't touched a woman since Joanna died. He loved her deeply and so much of the person that he's become by the events of the novel are a result of her dying. Pieces of him died with her and he rarely smiled after she went. I just don't really think Tywin actually was sleeping with Shae. I think Varys manipulated that situation.

a man needs to get some after 25 years. i dont care how much he loved her.

and it makes sense for tywin to bang whores. it adds a lot to the tyrion/tywin parallel

[bowmanz98]

I think its more the decisions she doesn't make that were her downfall. reading through her chapters you see that she is very dismissive with issues presented to her and she always go for the quick fix. she only resolves the problems she wants to resolve.