68 replies to this topic

[Tyryan Lannister]

I BLAME MANCE, on 18 October 2012 - 01:49 PM, said:

I always thought Varys gave Aegon VI to Ashara temporarily so she could nurse him since she had JUST lost a child and could breast feed him and what not.
Rhaenys took after her mother in appearance, she had brown hair and looked like a Martell. Who's to say Aegon the VI didn't have brown hair?
If Lyanna's babe had Valyrian features, Ned may have swiched the babe with Ashara, who had similar features. Nobody would question her raising a baby with those features.
It might also be why Ned feels such a sense of shame when thinking about Jon, because he never fulfilled that promise. HE gave her babe away instead of raising it even if it was to protect her.
Varys may have helped cover up Ashara's death like Connigton. Both seem to barely be remembered. Only by those they touched emotionally. Ashara also killed herself AFTER Ned's visit.
It also seems strange to me that Edric Dayne would ask Arya about both Wylla and Ashara.

Except it's not that Jon has dark hair but that he has the Stark look--it's more than just his hair that people look at and go "dude's a Stark" but his entire facial structure, which is not going to be shared between the Dornish Elia and the Northern Lyanna

Jem, on 18 October 2012 - 05:31 PM, said:

Dany was conceived the night that the Mad King killed his Hand, Lord Chelsted, which was just days before the Sack of Kings Landing. Jon was born at around this time (or probably slightly after) and then Dany was born, obviously, nine months after that. So Jon was born at around the time of the nominal end of the Rebellion, and Dany was born at the official end of the Rebellion - the taking of Dragonstone - making Jon around nine months or so older than Dany.

But nevertheless, you are right, the timeline does not work for Lyanna's baby to be swapped with Rhaella's.

Well, at least two weeks (Jaime states that Lord Pyromancer was Hand for two weeks), but yes,

Nelapsi, on 28 January 2013 - 03:54 AM, said:

I find this theory very fascinating, despite being utterly wrong.

Yeah...

[dreamprfct]

Hustle, on 15 October 2012 - 11:45 AM, said:

Visery's was born 275

Dany was born 284

At most, Visery's was 9 when Dany was born. It would have been very easy to switch babies on a 9 year old.

not really--depends on the kid I suppose and how close they are with their mother physically after the child is born
There would have been NO way I could have switched kids without my (younger kids) noticing--

[not in the face]

How does Ned Stark know to find Lyanna at the TOJ? Is it ever explained. I have yet to read all of GoT but I have read the other four and have yet to find the answer. And one more thing;

"She had been born on Dragonstone nine moons after their flight, while a raging summer storm threatened to rip the island fastness apart. They said that storm was terrible. The Targaryen fleet was smashed while it lay at anchor, and huge stone blocks were ripped from the parapets and sent hurtling into the wild waters of the narrow sea. Her mother had died birthing her, and for that her brother Viserys had never forgiven her."

How did someone get there to switch babies? How did anyone leave after pulling a switch? This leads me to believe Viserys was present shortly after the birthing (or during) and would know if a switch had been pulled.

[tyweezel]

I really like the idea of Dany being the kid of Lyanna and Rhaegar instead  of Jon; it does add a little more to who Dany is and who she will be at the end, and it will preclude Jon being the more obvious candidate. The only place it gets wonky is with the warging. Warging seems to be part of this entire generation of Stark offspring, and Dany only seems to have any connection to her dragons and no real indications of warg powers. Jon is basically beat over the head with it through the whole series.

[aryagonnakill]

First of all, thank you Jem for being the voice of reason here.  Secondly I don't know how stupid you imagine yourself to have been at 9 years old Hustle, but I don't consider myself to have ever been mentally handicapped.  I consider Viserys accepting a fake Targ as his sister to be utterly unthinkable in his mind.  The timeline on this really isn't that hard. Danaerys could only have been conceived in Kings Landing, or slightly after on Dragonstone itself.  If there was baby switching it wasn't between Dany and anyone.  I really liked the input someone made that suggested Aerys raping Ashara Dayne because I had not considered that at all, and it is a possibility.  However the one thing which makes all of these baby swopping stories seem unlikely to me is Ilyrio.  What could Ilyrio's motivations be with Aegon if he is one of these swopped babies with no real claim.  Varys is more difficult to read, and it is possible that given Ilyrio's past he would simply want a "good king" somewhere but I doubt it.  I think Ilyrio is the key to figuring Aegon out.

[Hustle]

I'm not saying I believe this theory is true, just possible.

A nine year old, even a prince who has been at court much of his life, could be easily fooled or made to believe just about anything if it were presented in the right fashion. A great thing aboiut ASOIAF is that it takes an accurate look at the times. How many other babies had Visery's seen in his life? Was anything he was taught actually "true." He never struck me as smart or critical by any means.

[Valyrian-Steel]

If it were true, why would it be necessary for Viserys to not be in on it? Because he calls her his sweet sister? Because Daenerys thinks that Viserys hates her because she thinks he thinks she killed his mother? What POV characters believe is not truth.

I'm not saying I believe it, but I don't think Viserys can be used as evidence to the contrary.

[The Bastard's Bastard]

The Targaryen looks is recessive for what we've seen in the books so far. None of the Targ bastards have those purple eyes or silvery hair, a reason why the Targs are marrying brothers and sisters to keep their blood 'pure'.  That's why Dany couldn't be Lyannas and Rhaegars child.

[MtnLion]

We do have a POV that was witness to Daenerys' conception.  Jaime was outside the king's chambers whilst he raped his wife, Rhaella, immediately before sending her to Dragonstone.  That was some time after Rhaegar's death at the Trident, and shortly (the pyromancer was hand for a fortnight) before the fall of King's Landing.  Jon is born within a month of this date, and Robb is likely already born.  Elia and Ashara have delivered twelve months earlier.  Hmm, kinda hard to swap these babies, with the exception of Ashara's and Elia's, which will be difficult enough considering Elia will be very well atended during labor.

What do we know about Elia?  She has a daughter Rhaenys that has her features, like mother like daughter.  What do we know of Ashara?  She has purple eyes, and likely some Targaryen genes in her background.  Could Ashara have a Targaryen looking child is she had been "dishonored" by a Targaryen?  I think so.  Aegon is reported to distinctly have Targaryen looks.  Rhaegar does not have the reputation of one who would dishonor young maidens.  Aerys is reporte dto rape his wife.  Aerys is reported to lust after Joanna, and even took liberties at the wedding that began the alienation of Tywin.  Is it possible that Aerys "dishonored" Ashara at Harrenhal?  Would Ashara have confronted Aerys about it, or told anyone else?  If Elia had delivered her second child a stillborn girl, and been told that she couldn't have any further pregnancies; would she be motivated enough to provide an heir by substituting Ashara's boy as her own?  Ashara would likely go along with this, to avoid the boy being raised as a bastard.  It would also grieve her terribly when Ned describes the grisly scene of the children at King's Landing, even though he would have no idea why.

Edited by MtnLion, 29 January 2013 - 12:45 PM.