423 replies to this topic

[Dark Heart]

The use and emphasis on iron is interesting.

Quote

“Did you see any weapons?”
“Some swords, a few bows. One man had an axe. Heavy-looking, double-bladed, a cruel piece of iron. It was on the ground beside him, right by his hand.”

Quote

There’s one woman up an ironwood, half-hid in the branches. A far-eyes.

Quote

“It was the cold,” Gared said with iron certainty.

Quote

For a moment he was afraid the older man would go for his sword. It was a short, ugly thing, its grip discolored by sweat, its edge nicked from hard use, but Will would not have given an iron bob for the lordling’s life if Gared pulled it from its scabbard.

And then we have :

Quote

His eyes swept back and forth over the abandoned campsite, stopped on the axe. A huge double-bladed battle-axe, still lying where he had seen it last, untouched. A valuable weapon

The axe that is described as "cruel piece of iron" is untouched once it's owner turned a wright.

[The Lord's Kiss]

Little Wing, what you said about the animals.

Since we are approaching this reread looking for animalistic tendencies I just noticed that the wolf howls and the owl hoots, but neither seems to be in Gared's sight or immediate presence.

If I recall correctly the horses are frightened and need to be lead to the spot where the clash with the Others eventually happens. I'd venture to say that animals in Martin's world have a sort of sixth sense when it comes to the Others, and they shy away from them as much as possible.

[Little Wing]

The Lord, on 05 November 2012 - 12:22 PM, said:

Little Wing, what you said about the animals.

Since we are approaching this reread looking for animalistic tendencies I just noticed that the wolf howls and the owl hoots, but neither seems to be in Gared's sight or immediate presence.

If I recall correctly the horses are frightened and need to be lead to the spot where the clash with the Others eventually happens. I'd venture to say that animals in Martin's world have a sort of sixth sense when it comes to the Others, and they shy away from them as much as possible.

Indeed. It's interesting that both Gared and Will share this apprehension with the animals - except for young hot-blooded Royce, hungry for glory, blind to fear... Will said that he never felt fear like that before, so it really must be something terrible to feel the Others' presence, and animals would certainly react first to this. Ghost is the only one that does not fear wights, but more about that when we hit those chapters.

[kissdbyfire]

Great summary, The Pack Survives!

One observation... the dead Jon had put in the ice cells are not wights. When Jon and co take the new recruits to swear their vows in front of the weirdwood grove, they come upon some wildlings and Wun Wun. Two or three of the wildlings were dead/dying and Jon decides to bring them back to see if they would raise.

ADwD, Jon:


They did the same with the two corpses, to the puzzlement of Iron Emmett. “They will only slow us, my lord,” he said to Jon. “We should chop them up and burn them.”
“No,” said Jon. “Bring them. I have a use for them.”

@Little Wing, regarding the Sidhe, Martin was explaining the physical appearance of the White Walkers. I know this has been floating around the forum for some time, and usually implying a much closer connection between WW and Sidhe. If you check the AGoT graphic novel, the artist says that only after several conversations with GRRM regarding the look of the WW did he come up with the Sidhe example. And I really don't think Martin is going to rehash the Sidhe to explain the WW.

[evita mgfs]

Before you read my notes, I wish to advise that I visited other threads, and people linked to The Tower of the Hand as well as wrote up their own summaries for the chapters.
I thought this a bit redundant, so the teacher in me has devised a different approach.  In my post, I offer quotations from the chapter and possible questions for study and discussion.
I did not want to summarize what you had just read – so I deviate from what is probably the norm, and I apologize, but it is school teacher in me.
So instead, I gathered and typed up relevant quotes from the POV and possible questions to get us going.  BTW, some of my questions may be lame – but I wanted to allow the people new to the board an opportunity to address some of what we long-time posters may already know.
Moreover, some of these new people are a little intimidated – and I do not want them to feel that way. On the contrary, I want them to share without the fear of reprisal.   So I hope my approach is a bit different but still helpful.
You DO NOT have to discuss my questions either.  We can begin our return to GoT with any ideas or questions anyone has.  My information gathering is just a way to help jump start speculation and discussion.

Chapter 2 BRAN’S POV
Dramatic Personae
Brandon Stark,  Eddard Stark, Robb Stark, Jon Snow, Theon Greyjoy, Desmond, Gared, Harwin, Hullen,  Jory Cassel, Tomard
The first line of Bran’s first POV reads:
“The morning had dawned clear and cold, with a crispness that hinted at the end of summer” (13).

• Note the use of summer.  What does this mean?  For SUMMER is the very name Bran gives his pup.

• Ned says to Bran:

“In truth, the man was an oathbreaker, a deserter from the Night’s Watch.No man is more dangerous.The deserter knows his life is forfeit if he is taken, so he will not flinch from any crime, no matter how vile” (16).

• Ned says to Bran:

“One day Bran, you will be Robb’s bannerman, holding a keep of your own for your brother and your king, and justice will belong to you.When this day comes, you must take no pleasure in the task, but neither must you look away.A ruler who hides behind paid executioners soon forgets what death is” (16).

NOW, I will ADJUST Ned’s wording to fit Bran’s situation “presently” as we know it:

“One day, Bran, you will be a greenseer, sitting a weirwood throne of your own for the old gods of the North, and justice will belong to you.When that day comes, you must take no vengeance for personal reasons, but neither must you shirk your duties as part of the godhood.A god who hides behind the face of a weirwood tree soon forgets what death is.”

I couldn’t help it.I think these words of Ned’s are significant even in regards to Bran presently.

I applied Ned’s advice to Bran the greenseer.So let me ask you, gentle readers, do you think Bran will be a vengeful god, at least at first?Why or Why not?

• Does Ned speak with unconscious irony here, or am I overanalyzing Martin’s word choice:

“Come, let us see what mischief my sons have rooted out now” (17).

• Ned uses the verb rooted – what does this mean?
  
• Do Ned’s words suggest that “rooted out” means that the direwolves are sent by the old gods, who reside in the roots of trees?

• “The riders picked their way carefully through the drifts, grouping for solid footing on the hidden, uneven ground.  Jory Cassel and Theon Greyjoy were the first to reach the boys.  Theon was laughing and joking as he rode.  Bran heard the breath go out of him.  “Gods!” he exclaimed, struggling to keep control of his horse as he reached for his sword.

Jory’s sword was already out.“Robb, get away from it!’ he called as his horse reared under him.

• Theon says “Gods!” in conjunction to the direwolf.  Is his choice of word intentional?  Or is he saying ir merely as an expletive?
  
• Will Bran someday hear “Theon’s breath” leave him for real in the future?

• Robb grinned and looked up from the bundle in his arms.  ‘She can’t hurt you,’ he said. ‘She’s dead, Jory.’

• Does Robb speak with unconscious irony when he suggests that the dead can’t hurt you?”

• “A wolf,” Robb told him [Theon].

“A freak,” Greyjoy said.”

• Freak rhymes with Reek – is this a happy coincidence?

• Half-buried in bloodstained snow, a huge dark shape slumped in death.  Ice had formed in its shaggy grey fur, and the faint smell of corruption clung to it like a woman’s perfume.  Bran glimpsed blind eyes crawling with maggots, a wide mouth full of yellowed teeth.  But it was the size of it that made him gasp.  It was bigger than his pony, twice the size of the largest hound in his father’s kennel.

“It’s no freak,” Jon said calmly.“That’s a direwolf.They grow larger than the other kind.”
Theon Greyjoy said, “There’s not been a direwolf sighted south of the wall in two hundred years,”
“I see one now,” Jon replied.
Bran tore his eyes away from the monster.That was when he noticed the bundle in Robb’s arms.He gave a cry of delight and moved close.The pup was a tiny ball of grey-black fur, its eyes still closed.It nuzzled blindly against Robb’s chest as he cradled it, searching for milk among his leathers, making a sad little whimpery sound.Bran reached out hesitantly.“Go on,” Robb told him, “You can touch him.”

Bran gave the pup a quick nervous stroke, then turned as Jon said, “Here you go.”His half-brother put a second pup into his arms.“There are five of them.”Bran sat down in the snow and hugged the wolf to his face.Its fur was soft and warm against his cheek.

• I love this passage.  It so brings to mind what it is like to go to a kennel to pick out or pick up a pup – or to be smitten with a pup the minute you see it.  I think pet lovers can related to the moment of first meeting your pup, and the instant connection you feel.
  
• Any reactions?

• Here is evidence that Ned takes no stock in “signs”, or does he?

“Direwolves loose in the realm, after so many years,” muttered Hullen, the master of horse.“I like it not.”
“It is a sign,” Jory said.
Father frowned.“This is only a dead animal, Jory,” he said, yet he seemed troubled.“Do we know what killed her?”

• Are the direwolves a sign?
  
• From whom and why?

• Ned says, “I am surprised she lived long enough to whelp,” he said.  His voice broke the spell.

• Technically, the spell refers to Bran sensing their fear, though he does not understand the significance of the stag’s antler.
  
• Does the spell suggest magic?
  
• Is there a magic force at work?
  
• What is rhe significance of the antler?

• “Maybe she didn’t,” Jory said.  “I’ve heard tales . . . maybe the bitch was already dead when the pups came.”

“Born with the dead,” another man put in. “Worse luck.”

• What does being born with the dead mean for the direwolves?
  
• Is there any merit to this?

• “No matter,” said Hullen.  “They be dead soon enough too.”

Bran gave a wordless cry of dismay.
“The sooner the better,” Theon agreed.He drew his sword.“Give the beast here, Bran.”
“The little thing squirmed against him, as if it understood.“No!”Bran cried out fiercely.“It’s mine.”

• Is this our first indication that the pups can sense impending danger?

• “Put away your sword, Greyjoy,” Robb said.  For a moment he sounded as commanding as their father, like the lord he would someday become.  “We will keep these pups” (19).

• What of Bran’s observation about Robb?
  
• What of Robb’s authoritative tone here?  “We will keep these pups.”

“It’d be a mercy to kill them, Hullen said. Bran looked to his father for rescue, but only got a furrowed brow.
“Hullen speaks truly, son.  Better a swift death than a hard one from cold and starvation” (19).

• Some thought Bran should be put out of his misery.  Any comments?

• It is Jon who saves the day, pointing out that there are five pups, three males and two females, exactly fitting Ned’s five true born children?  

These are Bran’s thoughts about Jon:

“Bran saw his father’s face change, saw the other men exchanged glances.He loved Jon with all his heart at that moment. Even at seven, Bran understood what his brother had done.The count had come right only because Jon had omitted himself.He had included the girls, included even Rickon the baby, but not the bastard who borne the first name Snow, the name that custom decreed be given to all those in the north unlucky enough to be born with no name of their own.
“You want no pup for yourself Jon?”
“The direwolf graces the banners of House Stark . . . I am no Stark, Father” (20).

• What of Jon’s selfless act here – is it selfless?
  
• Is he motivated by more than meets the eye?  Is he trying to impress his father by his generosity?

• Their lord father regarded Jon thoughtfully.  Robb rushed into the silence he left.  “I will nurse hum myself Father,” he promised.  “I will soak a towel with warm milk, and give him suck from that.”

“Me too!”Bran echoed.
The lord weighed his sons long and carefully with his eyes.“Easy to say, and harder to do.I will not have you wasting the servants’ time with this.If you want these pups, you will feed them yourselves.Is that understood?”
Bran nodded eagerly.The pup squirmed in his grasp, licked at his face with a warm tongue.
“You must train them as well . . . You must train them.The kennelmaster will have nothing to do with these monsters, I promise you that.And the gods help you if you neglect them, or brutalize them, or train them badly.These are not dogs to beg for treats and slink off at a kick.A direwolf will rip a mam’s arm off his shoulder as easily as a dog will kill a rat.Are you sure you want this?”
Yes, Father,” Bran said.
“Yes,” Robb agreed.
“The pups may die anyway, despite all you do.”
“They won’t die,” Robb said.“We won’t let them die.”
“Keep them, then.Jory, Desmond, gather up the other pups.It’s time we were back to Winterfell.”

• In how many homes has this scenario played out?  How many of us begged for our first bet, and then our parents set down the law about the care and training required to be a responsible pet owner.
  
• I thought we could share some of our own memories of that parental advice, and does it echo Ned’s instructions to his sons?

• Halfway across the bridge, Jon pulled up suddenly.

“What is it, Jon?”their lord father asked.
“Can’t you hear it?”
Bran could hear the wind in the trees, the clatter of hooves on the ironwood blanks, the whimpering of his hungry pup, but Jon was listening to something else.
“There,” Jon said.He swung his horse around and galloped back across the bridge.They watched him dismount where the direwolf lay dead in the snow, watched him kneel.A moment later he was riding back to them, smiling.
“He must have crawled away from the others,” Jon said.
“Or been driven away,” their father said, looking at the sixth pup.His fur was white, where the rest if the litter was grey.His eyes were red as the blood of the ragged man who had died that morning.Bran thought it curious that this pup alone would have opened his eyes while the others were still blind.
“An albino,” Theon Greyjoy said with mild amusement.“This one will die even faster than the others.”
Jon gave his father’s ward a long, chilling look.“I think not, Greyjoy,” he said.“This one belongs to me” (20).

• What exactly calls Jon back to find his direwolf?
  
• Why was Ghost separated from the rest of the pack?
  
• What is the significance of  Ghost’s coloring?

EDITED FOR FORMATTING ERRORS?

IT IS NOT TAKING MY NUMBERING: SORRY!  I HOPE YOU CAN FOLLOW!

Edited by evita mgfs, 05 November 2012 - 12:52 PM.

[evita mgfs]

The Pack Survives, on 05 November 2012 - 10:27 AM, said:

AGoT Prologue

POV: Will
Appearing: Gared, Waymar Royce, Will


snip

One more crackpot theory of mine. Later on, when Jon kills a wight, they note that the wight knew where to find the Lord Commander. Melisandre goes on and on about how “the bones remember.” Is it possible that when people become wights, they aren’t entirely “gone”? If so, perhaps Waymar Royce was angry at Will for not coming to help him? Just something to think about.

The chapter ends with Waymar-wight reaching out to Will, his fingers closing around Will’s throat. Gloved in the finest moleskin and sticky with blood, yet the touch is still “icy cold.

ETA: This is my very first re-read summary post. Ever. So I hope I did okay. Be nice, you lot.

THE PACK SURVIVES: AWESOME!  The best summary I have read.  My observations on "the cold":
Jon feels "the cold" when he is stabbed.
Renley also feels "the cold" when he is stabbed.

When Jon fights the wight, the wight goes for his mouth:  he tries to stick his fist down Jon's throat, and Jon is hoarse after the attack, just as his hand is burned.

YOU ROCK, GIRL!!

[Little Wing]

kissdbyfire, on 05 November 2012 - 12:33 PM, said:

Great summary, The Pack Survives!

One observation... the dead Jon had put in the ice cells are not wights. When Jon and co take the new recruits to swear their vows in front of the weirdwood grove, they come upon some wildlings and Wun Wun. Two or three of the wildlings were dead/dying and Jon decides to bring them back to see if they would raise.

ADwD, Jon:


They did the same with the two corpses, to the puzzlement of Iron Emmett. “They will only slow us, my lord,” he said to Jon. “We should chop them up and burn them.”
“No,” said Jon. “Bring them. I have a use for them.”

@Little Wing, regarding the Sidhe, Martin was explaining the physical appearance of the White Walkers. I know this has been floating around the forum for some time, and usually implying a much closer connection between WW and Sidhe. If you check the AGoT graphic novel, the artist says that only after several conversations with GRRM regarding the look of the WW did he come up with the Sidhe example. And I really don't think Martin is going to rehash the Sidhe to explain the WW.

I agree - the quote is regarding their physical appearance but maybe also a heads up that there's a connection between them and Faerie folk, which is also seen in the Others bulking at iron (a common staple of faerie lore) - it doesn't hurt them, but they certainly have a negative reaction to it, but that's later in the books.

Agree on your first point as well, the dead were put in iron but they didn't turn wight for starters, so we should keep that in mind as well.

[Lady Wylla Manderly]

Little Wing, on 05 November 2012 - 11:53 AM, said:

Great job on the summary, The Pack survives!

It's funny that the Royce's words are "We Remember" when it seems young Royce here surely doesn't - what I mean is, Gared knows what they could encounter, when he proposes to light a fire, Will also knows/feels there's something unhuman there, but Waymar is nonplussed and ignorant of what stalks beyond the Wall...or he simply chooses to ignore to acknowledge "anything you hear at a woman's tit" ie stories of the Others.

About the Other's blade, I always had the impression the blades are actually part of them...maybe that would explain the animal scream that the clash of iron and the Other's blade make? If it's part of it, the clash with iron would hurt it in a way... but that's just my impression.

Thank you =)

The thing is, Gared has been a man of the NW for 40 years. And Waymar is from the Vale - the southrons don't hold much stock in Northern tales. But you're still correct, for it's interesting that House Royce's banner seems to be including some sort of First Men runes.

That theory has merit, too. Have we ever seen an Other without his blade, by the way? When Sam stabbed one with obsidian, did it disappear as well? Does anyone remember?

kissdbyfire, on 05 November 2012 - 12:33 PM, said:

Great summary, The Pack Survives!

One observation... the dead Jon had put in the ice cells are not wights. When Jon and co take the new recruits to swear their vows in front of the weirdwood grove, they come upon some wildlings and Wun Wun. Two or three of the wildlings were dead/dying and Jon decides to bring them back to see if they would raise.

ADwD, Jon:

They did the same with the two corpses, to the puzzlement of Iron Emmett. “They will only slow us, my lord,” he said to Jon. “We should chop them up and burn them.”
“No,” said Jon. “Bring them. I have a use for them.”

Thank you <3

And thanks for the correction as well. I must've remembered it wrong. Or rather, failed to remember the distinction between really dead men and actual wights xD

evita mgfs, on 05 November 2012 - 12:43 PM, said:

THE PACK SURVIVES: AWESOME!  The best summary I have read.  My observations on "the cold":
Jon feels "the cold" when he is stabbed.
Renley also feels "the cold" when he is stabbed.

When Jon fights the wight, the wight goes for his mouth:  he tries to stick his fist down Jon's throat, and Jon is hoarse after the attack, just as his hand is burned.

YOU ROCK, GIRL!!

Thanks Evita. Great catch on the part I bolded, by the way. It goes very well with Gared's claim of how cold "gets inside you and starts to fill you up."

I'm going to read your summary now, and present my comments as soon as possible <3

[Manderly's Rat Cook]

I've sort of made a summary, or better I picked out sentences that had to do with animals (mostly) and wrote down the questions they raised in me. It's a quite long post, but I think I have some interesting things.
Feel free to only quote/reply to the things that interest you.

Prologue

A cold wind was blowing out of the north, and it made the trees rustle like living things. All day, Will had felt as though something were watching him, something cold and implacable that loved him not.

Are the trees rustling a reference to the Old Gods? Are the CotF trying to warn them? Are they the ones watching? Are the CotF working with the Others on the side of Ice? Others hide during the day, so how could they be watching?

Mounted on his huge black destrier, the knight towered above Will and Gared on their smaller garrons. He wore black leather boots, black woolen pants, black moleskin gloves, and a fine supple coat of gleaming black ringmail over layers of black wool and boiled leather. Ser Waymar had been a Sworn Brother of the Night's Watch for less than half a year, but no one could say he had not prepared for his vocation. At least insofar as his wardrobe was concerned.
His cloak was his crowning glory; sable, thick and black and soft as sin. "Bet he killed them all himself, he did," Gared told the barracks over wine, "twisted their little heads off, our mighty warrior." They had all shared the laugh.

Waymar Royce is obviously trying to fit in, he's even riding a black horse, but at the same time he's distinguishing himself with elegant and luxurious clothing, and a fancy horse.
He's being laughed at in their cups. His clothing is made from materials of small animals who are sooner prey than predator, maybe that's why he fell first.
About his sable cloak, from wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sable
The term has become a generic description for some black-furred animal breeds, such as sable cats or rabbits, and for the colour black in heraldry.
hearing. Sables mark their territory with scent produced in glands on the abdomen.[12] Predators on the sable include a number of larger carnivores, such as wolves, foxes, wolverines, tigers, lynxes, eagles and large owls.[12]
Sable fur is unique because it retains its smoothness in every direction it is stroked.
[/url]  A wealthy 17th century Russian diplomat once described the sable as "A beast full marvelous and prolific ... a beast that the Ancient Greeks and Romans called the Golden Fleece."[17]
Sometimes, sable hunting was a job given to convicts exiled to Siberia.<a href="http://en.wikipedia....te_note-zoo-9">[10]
So now we know sable is very expensive, soft, and has a very rich black colour, that is used in heraldry. It's called the Golden Fleece, and convicts exiled to Siberia used to hunt them (which sounds a bit like the Wall). I was trying to find a better animal connection in the sable coat, but couldn't find it. No mythological connection. I personally think that the Golden Fleece reference is just meant to indicate it's value, and is no reference to the actual myth.

Will had been a hunter before he joined the Night's Watch. Well, a poacher in truth. Mallister freeriders had caught him red-handed in the Mallisters' own woods, skinning one of the Mallisters' own bucks, and it had been a choice of putting on the black or losing a hand. No one could move through the woods as silent as Will, and it had not taken the black brothers long to discover his talent.

Now this is interesting, Will was a hunter/poacher, and Waymar can be seen as game in his fancy furs. Will was captured skinning a buck.
Male antelopes, deer and goats are referred to as bucks (larger species of male deer such as elk or moose are called bulls). Male hares, rabbits, ferrets, rats and kangaroos may also be referred to as bucks.
And in fact Will does let Waymar get killed, after which the prey (Waymar), turns into the predator and kills Will.

Frostfallen leaves whispered past them, and Royce's destrier moved restlessly.

Again whispering leaves, the horse notices. Maybe the horse understands the warning.

Somewhere off in the wood a wolf howled.

A warning? Or is the wolf announcing the attack, like a warhorn? Are the wolves on the side of the Others or not?

Royce paused a moment, staring off into the distance, his face reflective. A cold wind whispered through the trees. His great sable cloak stirred behind like something half-alive.

Again leaves are whispering, perhaps another warning. Most interesting is the descrition of the sable cloak looking like something half-alive, as if it's foreboding of the dead coming back to life.

"There's something wrong here," Gared muttered.
The young knight gave him a disdainful smile. "Is there?"
"Can't you feel it?" Gared asked. "Listen to the darkness."
Will could feel it. Four years in the Night's Watch, and he had never been so afraid. What was it?
"Wind. Trees rustling. A wolf. Which sound is it that unmans you so, Gared?" When Gared did not answer, Royce slid gracefully from his saddle. He tied the destrier securely to a low-hanging limb, well away from the other horses, and drew his longsword from its sheath. Jewels glittered in its hilt, and the moonlight ran down the shining steel. It was a splendid weapon, castle-forged, and new-made from the look of it. Will doubted it had ever been swung in anger.

Gared is pressing Waymar to use his animal instincts. Also in this text is one of the many examples where moonlight reflects on either metal or water. It seems to be related to death or the Others.

"There's some enemies a fire will keep away," Gared said. "Bears and direwolves and ... and other
things . . ."

Bears and direwolves... Hmm.. Mormonts and Starks? Does this mean they have been known to fight on the side of Ice in the past?

Will made no sound as he climbed. Behind him, he heard the soft metallic slither of the lordling's ringmail, the rustle of leaves, and muttered curses as reaching branches grabbed at his longsword and tugged on his splendid sable cloak.

As if the wood is saying: “Get down! Hide Hide!” in once another warning, or as if the wood is trying to hold him back so the Others can attack. Again the question: are the CotF involved in this, and if so; which side are they on?

Down below, the lordling called out suddenly, "Who goes there?" Will heard uncertainty in the challenge.
He stopped climbing; he listened; he watched.
The woods gave answer: the rustle of leaves, the icy rush of the stream, a distant hoot of a snow owl.
The Others made no sound.

Again a warning, or announcement from the woods, the Old Gods and the CotF. The Others make no sound, so it's probably not them giving the warning/announcement.

Its armor seemed to change color as it moved; here it was white as new-fallen snow, there black as shadow, everywhere dappled with the deep grey-green of the trees. The patterns ran like moonlight on water with every step it took.

Moonlight on water again. I might make a thread about that later, when I figure it out.

The Other said something in a language that Will did not know; his voice was like the cracking of ice on a winter lake, and the words were mocking.

I think this is (not the Old Tongue, but) the True Tongue that the CotF speak as well, this makes me wonder again if they might be on the side of Ice.

Edited by Manderly's Rat Cook, 05 November 2012 - 12:59 PM.

[Manderly's Rat Cook]

The Pack Survives, on 05 November 2012 - 12:53 PM, said:

Thank you =)

The thing is, Gared has been a man of the NW for 40 years. And Waymar is from the Vale - the southrons don't hold much stock in Northern tales. But you're still correct, for it's interesting that House Royce's banner seems to be including some sort of First Men runes.

That theory has merit, too. Have we ever seen an Other without his blade, by the way? When Sam stabbed one with obsidian, did it disappear as well? Does anyone remember?

No he still had the dagger, he broke it later trying to kill the Small Paul wight

[evita mgfs]

Dark Heart, on 05 November 2012 - 11:33 AM, said:

Very nice summary, The Pack Survives!
snip

p.s. Beautiful pictures and furry companions, everyone!
Here's my boy T-Rex in the snow.
He's a GSD but thinks he's part dinosaurs (he eats like one), part Yeti (he adore snow and winter is his favorite time of the year) and part shark (he'll go for a swim in rivers, lakes, sea, pond . . . any water).

DARK HEART:  I love REX or [T-REX].  Is her a German Shephard?  He looks like a police dog with longer hair.  I love that he is playing in the snow, with snow on his snout.  My pups love it when it snows.  They do the "snow plow" - they bury their muzzles in the snow and "plow" it up into a pile.  Then they make a fort.  I swear, they are a pack of kids.  I wouldn't be surprised if some day I look out the window, and they will have built a snowman.  They are just too smart!

[Lady Wylla Manderly]

Manderly, on 05 November 2012 - 12:57 PM, said:

No he still had the dagger, he broke it later trying to kill the Small Paul wight

No I meant the Other's blade/sword. I'll check that part to see if what happened to it is mentioned after Sam stabbed it.

[Manderly's Rat Cook]

I love the Royce connection with the runes! I think Bronze Yohn will play a much larger part in the next two books, and his armour might prove to give some supernatural protection. They seem to be descended from the First Men, probably why he finds the Wall still important enough to send his own son there.
LF is planning on recapturing WF for Sansa, if Bronze Yohn goes along with this, it will place him in the North. Or maybe he'll go to the wall to find out what happened to his son himself.

Did I just see that there was a sable in his sigil? This would explain his son's sable cloak, and perhaps would even be a link to them warging sables in the past

[The Lord's Kiss]

Holy crap Evita, didn't realize we would be getting yours so soon. Time to reread the chapter and get back to you.

Awesome stuff though, you guys are doing fantastic so far!

[Manderly's Rat Cook]

The Pack Survives, on 05 November 2012 - 01:01 PM, said:

No I meant the Other's blade/sword. I'll check that part to see if what happened to it is mentioned after Sam stabbed it.

That I do not know, I think so because the Other melted away like ice (I think that's what they're made from, and dragonglass kills them because it's fire as hot as dragonfire inside - sort of). I think Grenn and Sam would've pickes up the sword and took it with them as proof if it was still there... right?

[Lady Wylla Manderly]

Great summary, Evita!

evita mgfs, on 05 November 2012 - 12:36 PM, said:

< snip >
&#8203;

Hahaha xD Am I a terrible person for laughing at Theon's "freak" comment?

I think most Northerners are greatly more superficial than others', but Ned doesn't seem to be worrying about signs and old tales. I don't think he drew a supernatural conclusion with this. When Hullen says "direwolves loose in the realm after so many years," I got the distinct impression of WINTER. In another book it was mentioned how in the old days, direwolf packs used to prowl the woods even south of the Wall. Ned's worry here striked me as a parallel to his House's words. Winter is coming. Seeing a direwolf south of the Wall may have made him think that this winter will be colder and longer. But as I said, I don't think he drew any supernatural conclusions.

As for the Ghost part... I'm not sure what exactly drew him to find Ghost, seeing as we read the chapter from a Bran POV and he didn't seem to hear anything. But seeing as Jon IS a warg and all Stark kids have a special connections with their direwolves, it makes sense that he may have felt drawn towards finding him. And I always interpreted Ghost's colouring as Jon being slightly separated/different from the rest of his pack, much like Ghost was, but if any of you have a more interesting conclusion, please do share =)

Edited by The Pack Survives, 05 November 2012 - 01:13 PM.

[Dark Heart]

evita mgfs, on 05 November 2012 - 12:59 PM, said:

DARK HEART:  I love REX or [T-REX].  Is her a German Shephard?  He looks like a police dog with longer hair.  I love that he is playing in the snow, with snow on his snout.  My pups love it when it snows.  They do the "snow plow" - they bury their muzzles in the snow and "plow" it up into a pile.  Then they make a fort.  I swear, they are a pack of kids.  I wouldn't be surprised if some day I look out the window, and they will have built a snowman.  They are just too smart!

Yup, he's a German Shepherd.
The reason he looks different from police dog is because he's born and breed in Germany from German work and show lines.
He loves burrowing into show too. When wither comes my backyard is full of show dens.

[Manderly's Rat Cook]

The Pack Survives, on 05 November 2012 - 01:13 PM, said:

Great summary, Evita!



Hahaha xD Am I a terrible person for laughing at Theon's "freak" comment?

I think most Northerners are greatly more superficial than others', but Ned doesn't seem to be worrying about signs and old tales. I don't think he drew a supernatural conclusion with this. When Hullen says "direwolves loose in the realm after so many years," I got the distinct impression of WINTER. In another book it was mentioned how in the old days, direwolf packs used to prowl the woods even south of the Wall. Ned's worry here striked me as a parallel to his House's words. Winter is coming. Seeing a direwolf south of the Wall may have made him think that this winter will be colder and longer. But as I said, I don't think he drew any supernatural conclusions.

As for the Ghost part... I'm not sure what exactly drew him to find Ghost, seeing as we read the chapter from a Bran POV and he didn't seem to hear anything. But seeing as Jon IS a warg and all Stark kids have a special connections with their direwolves, it makes sense that he may have felt drawn towards finding him. And I always interpreted Ghost's colouring as Jon being slightly separated/different from the rest of his pack, much like Ghost was, but if any of you have a more interesting conclusion, please do share =)

That and the fact that the Stag and the Direwolf had killed eachother, which indeed happens in the books, in a way Ned and Robert are responsible for each other's death.

Jon somehow HEARD Ghost, even though he never makes a sound. He says : Don't you hear it? But Bran only hears his own pup whimpering. it's interesting.

[Little Wing]

I re-read Sam's chapter with the Other dissolving, no mention of a blade of his left behind. Only the dragonglass blade is mentioned.

But, that's off topic - carry on! We're chaotic from the get-go

[Manderly's Rat Cook]

Little Wing, on 05 November 2012 - 01:20 PM, said:

I re-read Sam's chapter with the Other dissolving, no mention of a blade of his left behind. Only the dragonglass blade is mentioned.

But, that's off topic - carry on! We're chaotic from the get-go

That's true enough, I keep refreshing this thread, cause everytime I have a thought a new post is added..