87 replies to this topic

[The Drunkard]

Stannis seems more affectionate to Davos than he does to Selyse, heh. I wonder if... nah, couldn't be....

Anyway, great post kissdbyfire. Really liking this reread so far.

[Blisscraft]

A Different Bird

Stannis is a man with a mission.  The beginnings of the chapter reveal how far he is willing to go to accomplish it.  He will sacrifice the "new gods" to his "new god."  The end of the chapter tells us why:  "[t]he Iron Throne is [his] by rights. . . ."  The new god is the means.  Stannis says:

There are four kings in the realm, three of them have more men and more gold than I do.  I have ships. . . and I have her.  The red woman.  Half of my knights  are afraid to even say her name, did you know?  If nothing else, a sorceress who can inspire such dread in grown men is not to be dispised.  A frightened man is a beaten man.  And perhaps she can do more.  I mean to find out.

Stannis tells Davos the story of Proudwing, his goshawk.  (I agree with Kissbyfire that it is a sad tale).  However, it is also a lesson learned.  There is a moral to the story, according to Stannis, and that is, he is willing to let go of the past to achieve his future.  Stannis will do this by following a bit of advise from his great-uncle Ser Harbert, to "try a new bird," and Mel is that new bird.

Birds are symbols of spirituality and/or spiritual aid.  Also, birds are a symbol of the soul.  In this case,  Stannis not only refers to the color of his bird, a red one, but also the kind of bird, a goshawk.  Both the color and the type of bird are signinficant as secondary symbols.

The color red is the color of life.  It is the color of blood and fire.  It is the color of passion.  The color of anger as in, "seeing red."  The new bird is a red bird, a red "sorceress."  The color inspires both awe and fear.  As clear from the above, Stannis means to take advantage of this fact.

As for the type of bird, a hawk is a bird of prey: sharp eyed and fast flying; meat eating, not seed eating.  Hawks scream as opposed to sing.  So the hawk's screaming becomes a clear message more akin to causing terror than to causing pleasure in the hearer.  Like the color red, the hawk inspires awe and fear.  Stannis means to take advantage of this as well.

ETA:  A "bird" is also a slang term for a woman.  Stannis is trying a new "woman."

Edited by Blisscraft, 11 December 2012 - 09:42 AM.

[Lummel]

A goshawk is an interesting choice of bird, there's a medieval English poem that lists what bird of prey a man may keep based on his social estate (you might remember this if you've read "Kes":

"An Eagle for an Emperor, a Gyrfalcon for a King; a Peregrine for a Prince, and a Saker for a Knight; a Merlin for a lady, a Goshawk for a Yeoman, a Sparrowhawk for a Priest, and a Kestrel for a Knave"

A goshawk by medieval English standards would have been considerably beneath a man of Stannis' status.  It suggests a lack of ambition and vision.  A wounded Goshawk that wouldn't hunt shows that to be a pursuit that is futile and leads nowhere.

The abandonment of the low-status bird is a metaphor for abandoning his position as a Lord and pursuing the crown as well as for abandoning his old faith in favour of one that champions and asserts his role in the universe.  It's as little as though in modern terms he's left the faith of his fathers in favour of one of those mega churches in which they preach that God wants the faithful to be rich and successful in this vale of tears.

[Fragon]

I love this Davos chapter, as I love all interactions between Davos&Stannis and Jon&Stannis, they reveal so much about him and you begin to see Stannis in a very different way than the global impressions.

Great topic!

[starkalways]

I would love to see more stannis analysis. He's definitely a character I'm conflicted about. I want to love him but I have seen enough to make him unfavorable.

[Theda Baratheon]

R, on 03 November 2012 - 04:28 PM, said:

I think there was a legitimate caution in giving men like Stannis too much power. And yes Robert had next to no skill or desire at running a kingdom, but he was no tyrant. While the council members arent particularly heroic, I can see LF while counciling Ned, picturing Stannis attending every single council meeting overruling everybody else's ideas in favor of what his own personal version of what is just and fair. I think Robert provided a climate of "at least hes not Aerys". Men like Stannis and Tywin have potential to be great and effective leaders, but there is just as much potential to become tyrannical maniacs. I think this was why a lot of the uneasiness about Stannis, from not just Robert but others as well.

I really can't see Stannis as a tyannical maniac in any shape or form. He is all about duty. He listens to good men like Davos.

[SeanSnow]

"Stannis is iron, hard but brittle. Robert was the true steel."

[Kate Poem]

Reasons for Littlefinger' and Varys's dislike for Stannis?
He - after his official coronation - probably will remove Littlefinger's and Varys's heads from their necks.
Both of them knew about it.