38 replies to this topic

[Quiet Isle]

callmedodge, on 04 November 2012 - 11:53 PM, said:

These are all old English words that are no longer in common use. For instance, leal means to be faithful or loyal. So when you see "leal lords" it means lords who are loyal to a higher lord or king.

Also, "breaking one`s fast" was the original term for breakfast.

The only one on that list that is unique to ASOIAF is direwolf and possibly moon blood.

Oh, and host doesn`t mean army. A host is a person who welcomes another into his or her home and provides them with food, drink, a bed etc.

  actually direwolves existed.  and I'm loving this thread.

[Bird of Thousand Colors]

I'm not an English native either. But what about the word warg. Has it any meaning, or is it fictitious?? My dictionary isn't any help. But I just reread The Hobbit and it hit me... In chapter VI it says: "But even the wild WARGS (for so the evil wolves over the edge of the wild were named)..."

[Elyrica]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warg

[Arya Nymeria Stark]

What about Nameday, instead of Birthday? That one's missing from the original list.

I agree that I also love the way GRRM has the characters talk.

[Bad Hound!]

So a whole range of word has developed around the 'warg' concept.

As Elyrica's link shows, a warg is originally a wolf (and not a nice one - more like a bad direwolf), but in GRRM's world has evolved to mean an animal whose brain/soul has been highjacked by a human. And so we have the word 'to warg', 'warging' etc etc.

Is the word 'maester' a GRRMism too? And 'septon'?

[tom_saxon]

Bad Hound!, on 12 December 2012 - 02:18 PM, said:

So a whole range of word has developed around the 'warg' concept.

As Elyrica's link shows, a warg is originally a wolf (and not a nice one - more like a bad direwolf), but in GRRM's world has evolved to mean an animal whose brain/soul has been highjacked by a human. And so we have the word 'to warg', 'warging' etc etc.

Is the word 'maester' a GRRMism too? And 'septon'?

Warg is such an interesting concept and there is sooo much to it in myth and folklore.  Yes, a "bad wolf" but more so literally the spirit of an outlaw.  The old norse (the ancient germanics in general) did not have a black and white concept of good and evil so much as a concept of what lies within the right order of things and society and what lies without it.  They believed the Seidhkona (witch) could possess the body of a warrior by riding that aspect of his soul which is an animal (the fylgja), the fylgja of an outlaw often being a warg/vargr, or wolf.  A closely related term is hamingja, and the third would be hide as in http://www.etymonlin...x.php?term=hide .  That a hide is a literal skin or covering and that it is also a word meaning "to conceal" is no coincidence.  The hide covers all the other elements of the spirit as if they were organs  themselves.

I think GRRM does a great job incorporating some of these concepts into his idea of "warg", but really the folklore is so rich and deep that there is endless source material for so much more great writing and fiction.

As far as "Maester" I think this is GRRMs ingenious combination of the ideas of meister, maestro, and mage.

meister:   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meister
maestro: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maestro
mage/magi:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magi

Last but not least is "septon", the word "Sept" in latin meaning "seven", it makes perfect sense that a preist of the seven-facd god would be called a Septon and the temple of the same god a Sept.  

Edited by tom_saxon, 12 December 2012 - 09:46 PM.

[PetyrPunkinhead]

I was reading Cersei's first chapter in AFFC last night and came across a word that I wanted to mention in this thread, but now it escapes me. D'oh.

[i_atchison]

A direwolf is just an extinct type of wolf that lived in north america.

[SaltSmokeAndSnow]

ebevan91, on 01 December 2012 - 10:18 PM, said:

These books have changed the way I speak.

Sometimes I say "on the morrow", "breaking my fast", "breeches", etc.

Sometimes I even say "Seven hells" or "Gods!", instead of "God!", "Gosh!", etc..

I find myself saying seven Hells every once in a while. But I mainly attribute that to the scene in season 1 of the show where Sansa is almost in tears saying, but I love Joff I want to marry him and give him sons with beautiful blond haaaaaaar. Arya looks at sansa with a look like she just bit a lemon and just says, Seven Hells haha I laugh everytime.
I'm glad the OP specified that while somewhat unique in his use of certain terminology, the meanings of such terms and phrases are still obvious. It's not like he's speaking High Valaryian. It's just english. Even nuncle.

[Nerolunar]

"as naked as on your nameday"

[Bolton333]

Old english vocab goes for warg and wight as well, both words are well known from Tolkien ' s works, of course.

„Until the 19.th century the word `wight' was used in regional dialect with the meaning `person`...
another early use of `wight', was to denote supernatural beings in general or in particular a ghost or demon.

warg:

„in Old Norse“ (of which Tolkien was one of the few known specialists-bolton333), „vargr means either outlaw or wolf.
Middle english wari means felon, outlaw, villain.
Middle high German the related word warc could mean monster."

All the above is a quotation from this work:

http://www.amazon.co...lish Dictionary

The word studies are well worth reading in full, I quted only a short part of them.

[TheWitchfinder]

It's not a word but rather a phrase which GRRM has used numerous times and I find very clever and funny : "useless like nipples on a breastplate". I want to hear Tyrion saying this on the show! Haha.

[Saxony]

KhaleesiDany, on 29 November 2012 - 07:18 PM, said:

Moon Blood_- GRRM's way of saying it is a woman's "time of the month." The name comes from because girls' (menstrual) cycles follow the moon.

Mind blown!  I could never figure that out!  I thought okay.... only women seem to get moon blood... and it seemed to be significant as far as sex was concerned... duh!

Thanks for clearing that up for me.

[Bocco]

I like it as well, many expression are derived from existing ones that aren't used anymore or changed to give it an older feel.
It makes the story even better because it has of course this middle ages feel, using ancient language would only be appropriate!

[Lion of Judah]

Anyone ever caught themselves using one of his terms from the book? I call birthday nameday now and I say seven hells a lot.

[Ser Redjed]

The term smallclothes.

[Keturah]

KhaleesiDany, on 29 November 2012 - 07:18 PM, said:

Moon Blood_- GRRM's way of saying it is a woman's "time of the month." The name comes from because girls' (menstrual) cycles follow the moon.
.

More because they tend to follow a 28 day cycle, like the moon, but they don't actually have anything to do with the moon

[lannistergold]

Early modern English is a staple in fantasy; actual Old English might fit the time depicted better, but it would be almost incomprehensible to modern ears. If you play recent fantasy video games, you'll see a lot of it - maybe GRRM has been influential in that way?

[The Ghost and the Hound]

Most of the words I see being questioned are either Old English, or terms/phrases from other countries (generally those of Europe).

Nameday is like birthday or the saint whom you are named after. This is common in Europe

Mayhaps is obviously a combo of maybe and perhaps. I use it quite often, and began doing so much prior to reading either GRRM's ASoIaF or Jordan's WoT series.

Smallclothes is a synonym for underwear or breeches. It's origin is British I believe.

"On the morrow" = tomorrow, is not an expression coined by GRRM either

Flagon = a container to hold liquids. Flask derives from this word

Nuncle = my uncle

Imp = mischievous little child or devil

There are a TON of words that GRRM borrows from other languages or their linguistic origins.

The only two words I would think are of GRRM's creation are: Ser and Maester

Robert Jordan uses master when describing a scribe or one with expertise in alchemy.