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Jaqen messed up


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14 replies to this topic

#1 Bruno Wu

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 03:15 AM

I know this is a minutia here. When Arya blackmailed Jaqen into killing the guards, doesn't that upset the "sacrifices to the Red Gods" rule? Jaqen was only going to give 3 lives in exchange for the 3 lives saved. But he killed over 10 guards in the process of "undoing" Arya's last request.

So Jaqen upset the balance in order to save himself?

Edited by Bruno Wu, 05 November 2012 - 12:04 PM.


#2 Crown

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 04:32 PM

I think you could say that. Haven't given it any thought before, but yeah, it was probably to save his own arse.

#3 Joe11093

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 03:45 PM

That's what i thought when i read it.

#4 Bocco

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 02:28 PM

I just liked to assume that those sacrifices, and keeping the balance, were to be used symbolically.
The Faceless Men are hired assassins, so they kill for payment, I suppose that keeping the balance in that might be a little too complicated.

#5 Lion of Judah

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 05:31 AM

She gave him his own name which technically he couldn't do, so a new agreement was struck in order for her to take his name back.

#6 juauz

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 03:12 PM

Good question. Maybe we can see consequences of that choice of Jaqen in the future...

#7 Woftis

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 12:25 PM

Is balance ever mentioned? I assumed it was the case where the more dead you give the Red Gods the better...?

#8 juauz

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 01:49 PM

Is balance ever mentioned? I assumed it was the case where the more dead you give the Red Gods the better...?


Kind of. I mean, he said something about Arya saving three lifes, and this way he will give those lifes back to the Red, and Arya has to choose. This leads us to think there must be a balance...

#9 Beric Zoolander

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 03:47 PM

If I remember correctly from reading Jaqen killed the guards so she would release him from being the 3rd name, and when it was all said and done he told her that he had more than repaid her and that he wouldn't take a 3rd name from her. It was outside their initial deal of 3 lives for 3 lives. She manipulated him.

Weasel Soup...

#10 MidnightAurora

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Posted 30 June 2013 - 05:07 PM

He repaid her back sort of by having her participate in the killings with the weasel soup and therefore implicating her in the escape where all the others started to hate her etc..

He also messed up in another way when he told Arya now "I must go as I have promises to keep and other duties to fulfill" which if Arya caught that would make her wonder what those are as he seems more than just a faceless man and seems to be in key places at the precise time. Part of me feels he was imprisoned on purpose and wanted Yoren to take him to the wall for purposes we have yet to be seen.

Edited by MidnightAurora, 30 June 2013 - 05:43 PM.


#11 Greywolf2375

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Posted 30 June 2013 - 05:24 PM

Kind of. I mean, he said something about Arya saving three lifes, and this way he will give those lifes back to the Red, and Arya has to choose. This leads us to think there must be a balance...

I wouldn't say it is a required balance, just the he felt three lives were owed - but not that there was a "contract" that he was limited to three if the situation required it.

#12 silentwanderer

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 03:08 PM

I know this is a minutia here. When Arya blackmailed Jaqen into killing the guards, doesn't that upset the "sacrifices to the Red Gods" rule? Jaqen was only going to give 3 lives in exchange for the 3 lives saved. But he killed over 10 guards in the process of "undoing" Arya's last request.

So Jaqen upset the balance in order to save himself?


It's different in the books because the names had a supernatural connotation, Jaqen could feel death coming for him once Arya named him.

They both grieved their friendship and it was the first, and only time, they displayed affection for one another.

The guards he killed didn't "upset the balance" because whather was coming to end Jaqen's life, was a completely different force altogether.

He was saved because the name was removed, not because he free the northern men or killed the guards that imprisoned them.

#13 MidnightAurora

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 03:31 PM

It's different in the books because the names had a supernatural connotation, Jaqen could feel death coming for him once Arya named him.

They both grieved their friendship and it was the first, and only time, they displayed affection for one another.

The guards he killed didn't "upset the balance" because whather was coming to end Jaqen's life, was a completely different force altogether.

He was saved because the name was removed, not because he free the northern men or killed the guards that imprisoned them.


Interesting that is why he stated "a man can fill the sands of the hourglass" meaning he could feel death was coming for him and could be why he acted so quickly with the request and although hastily, but effective plan because Jaqen had to act before the "hourglass" drained and he was lost.

#14 silentwanderer

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 10:04 PM

Interesting that is why he stated "a man can fill the sands of the hourglass" meaning he could feel death was coming for him and could be why he acted so quickly with the request and although hastily, but effective plan because Jaqen had to act before the "hourglass" drained and he was lost.


Precisely, for an agent of death Jaqen could sense his death coming despite no one was there to carry it out but himself.

It was so powerful that Arya could feel it herself (hence the reason she helped him out with the weasel soup).

#15 SpringKing

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Posted 20 January 2014 - 06:55 AM

As written, Jaqen only kills the one guard able to draw a sword in that incident. IMO he was compelled him to recruit Rorge and Biter to kill the other 5 guards to technically maintain the 3 for 3 balance. Using accomplices is likely contrary to the assassin's code among Faceless Men.

 

I think Jaqen suspected the Hoat/bolton conspiracy and that it was planned the northern prisoners would be released to seize the castle from within. Jaqen even encouraged Arya to name Joffrey because, as Arya herself put it, "The last death has to count." As it played out, Arya's last death wish, her "mad dream" as Jaqen calls it, didnt count. Not only was it unnecessary, even afterward she couldnt bring herself to take advantage of the Stark sigil being raised over Harrenhall and name herself to Glover, Bolton or any of Robb's other bannermen there.

 

The Lorathi brought the blade to Arya still red with heart's blood and wiped it clean on the front of her shift. "A girl should be bloody too. This is her work."

 

Still pondering why Jaqen was more distraught at having to kill himself than he was while trapped in chains in the midst of towering flames before Arya's intervention. Surely suicide with his thin, sharp knife would have been cleaner and quicker than being consumed by fire. He was trapped in both situations though, by his chains and by his oath.