A girl gives a man his own name?
Posted 06 November 2012 - 12:40 PM
Posted 06 November 2012 - 01:10 PM
Posted 06 November 2012 - 08:00 PM
I like Tyrion "they say you shit gold, father, so if it's true, find a privy and get busy!"
Imagine talking to your father like that!! /ack.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':ack:' />
Posted 18 June 2013 - 01:48 PM
Posted 23 June 2013 - 11:17 PM
I like it too. I was impressed Arya outsmarted Jaqen when she said his name so he can kill more people for her. Badass gurl.
No comments here. Just like this quote /biggrin.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':D' />
Posted 29 June 2013 - 06:29 PM
Here is my favorite quote from the end of book 2: "The stone is strong, the roots of the trees go deep, and under the ground the Kings of Winter sit their thrones. So as long as those remained, Winterfell remained. It was not dead, just broken. Like me, I'm not dead either. Great qoute and interesting context that may be forboding of things to come. I like how he states of the Kings of Winter still sit their thrones meaning something is important about the crypts and as long as they remain so does Winterfell and Starks.
Posted 04 July 2013 - 08:32 AM
Posted 04 July 2013 - 03:49 PM
What I liked about the book is that they never took the time to figure out what they were until then. It was as if Jaqen's impending death forced him to admit he was as fond of Arya as she was fond of him. The show took its time to develop the bond to make it all the more evident by the time they leave Harrenhal, but the books made it an emotional bomb that revealed intself in the course of a few pages.
What is interesting is that when it was someone else's name he took his time, but with his name he rushed into action. Curious. Arya's comment back to him is: "You are not my friend a friend would help and I would never kill a friend".. Quit wit Arya..
Edited by silentwanderer, 04 July 2013 - 03:53 PM.
Posted 20 December 2013 - 05:36 PM
"A girl gives a man his own name? ...Really? REALLY??"
Posted 19 January 2014 - 12:39 PM
I was impressed Arya outsmarted Jaqen when she said his name so he can kill more people for her. Badass gurl.
In doing so, Arya also outsmarted herself. After manipulating Jaqen into freeing the northern prisoners it seemed a huge plot hole that Arya didnt seize the golden opportunity to declare herself to Robett Glover, Roose Bolton or any of her brother's bannermen at Harrenhall while the Stark sigil is being flown above its walls. Getting back to Winterfell was why "the last death has to count" and now she's in friendly territory. Becoming a water dancer and wolf again, and going home, was what she prayed for in the godswood when Gendry refused to help. Her whole idea in freeing the northern prisoners was to seize her best chance for getting home.
Yet the 'last death' Jaqen granted her didnt really count. The 'prisoners' were a ruse and Vargo Hoat would have unleashed them anyway, weasel soup or no. After the 'trojan horse' takeover at Harrenhall, Arya doesnt morph from ghost to direwolf as she had prayed and doesnt further her goal. Instead she reverts to a mouse when Jaqen is about to introduce her to Robett Glover; a mouse as she returns to bed while the bloodbath is unfolding; a mouse when she meets Roose Bolton ("Are you fond of animals?") and weakly declares herself as Nymeria-but-call-me-Nan; a mouse in not being able to trust Glover or Helman Tallhart with her secret before they left; a mouse while tidying Roose's rooms; a mouse in not telling Bolton who she was when she asked to go with him when he left.
Because she'd mocked the gods. Twice in their meeting in the godswood Jaqen warns her - "The gods are not mocked". His first warning was after she rebukes the heart/god tree: "I dont care if you help me or not. I dont think you could even if you wanted to." The second was when she tried to escalate the 'last death' the gods (via Jaqen) owed her into the last deaths of the eight guards. And on top of her mockery, evil Arya coerces from Jaqen an oath to all the gods as her ultimate binder to his own suicide and, ultimately, his acquiesce to her unnecessary scheme.
So much for making that last death count. Arya could have avenged her father by choosing Joffrey (as Joqen seemed eager for her to do) and Harrenhall would have fallen to the northmen anyway. After Bolton's final dismissal, Arya goes back to godswood to pray but instead of the gods silent assistance, hears her father telling her to become the wolf. Indirectly though, she does manage to cadge an extra death from Jaqen by dropping his coin at the sentry and cutting his throat when he stoops to retrieve it.
Favorite quote from this portion of the narrative - "I hope your princess dies" - Arya unwittingly to Elmar Frey, her unknown, and former, fiancé.
In ACOK Jaqen's actual response was "A girl . . . makes a jest". Altogether here, GRRM serves up a thick and hearty kettle of weasel soup.
Posted 19 January 2014 - 05:52 PM
You forget Arya's ten years old and wouldn't think Jaqen was capable of killing the King on the Iron Throne, and also, she didn't know Vargo would help the northmen. You can't blame her for it.
Also, did Jaqen attribute his three kills debt to the old gods? I remember him saying just gods, and that could mean whatever mentioned-or-no religion from Westeros or Lorath (or even somewhere else). His respect for the old gods is just as vivid as any other person in Westeros', seen as people adherent to the Faith of the Seven aren't really prejudicial or rejecting to the ones of the Children's Faith.
Her skepticalness on revealing herself to Roose Bolton, Robett Glover or Hellman Tallhart is justified in my opinion. Who knows if their protection would be enough for her to travel safely to the North or even Riverrun? And well, on top of it all, you wouldn't expect a claim of nobility from Arya Underfoot.
Posted 19 January 2014 - 07:50 PM
Ten going on Twenty. Like all the Stark children, circumstances have forced her to mature quickly. As for not thinking Jaqen capable of killing Joffrey - if she'd already concluded Weese's demise by his own dog was "dark magic" then surely Joqen could use similar arts against Joffrey.
Joqen attributes the 3 wish death debt to the Red God which I assume refers to Westeros' newly imported fire god being that Arya saved Joqen, Rorge and Biter from the burning cart.
"The Red God has his due, sweet girl, and only death may pay for life. This girl took three that were his. This girl must give three in their places. Speak the names and a man will do the rest."
However, Joqen certainly respects the old (spirit) gods as evidenced by his first warning to Arya not to mock them. His second warning was not to mock the Red God in particular.
"Three lives were snatched from a god. Three lives must be repaid. The gods are not mocked."
It would seem Joqen respects all the gods - old, new and newest.
Catelyn trusted Roose enough to convince Robb to name him commander of most of the northern host. Arya's skepticism of Roose, excepting any clairvoyance on her part, would only justified on her last day at Harrenhall when a raven from the Twins brings news that results in Elmar's crying jag on the steps of the Wailing Tower.
"My princess", he sobbed. "We're been dishonored Aenys says. . . . My lord father says I'll need to marry someone else, or be a septon."
Clearly the pact that Catelyn negotiated, and Robb agreed to, with Lord Frey had unraveled. But between the time of the 'trojan' northern takeover and Arya's last day, Roose and his subordinates continue prosecuting the Stark cause diligently, giving no overt cause for Arya to hesitate revealing her identity.
As for not expecting Arya Underfoot to claim nobility, previously she'd planned to do so to Lord Cerwyn while he was Tywin's prisoner. After Cerwyn died she even contemplated approaching Tywin himself with her claim. In any event, had Arya named Joff instead of Jaqen, and allowed the takeover to ensue as Bolton and Hoat had already arranged, certainly she would have been better protected by a contingent of northern bannermen than the fearsome duo of blundering Gendry and the ever ready to yield Hot Pie. Had she acted immediately after the takeover, an armed loyal escort would have seen Arya well on her way to Riverrun, beyond Bolton's reach, before Roose was informed of the Frey's dishonor.
But had she done so, we'd be discussing a far different epic fantasy from this point forward. That she didnt can only be attributed, after careful (re)reading, to the displeasure of the gods.
Posted 19 January 2014 - 10:47 PM
On Jaqen's religion, I'd say his devotion to the Red God is something beyond "being saved from fire" as he's from beyond the Narrow Sea, where R'hllor is a common deity. Melisandre is a priestess of R'hllor, which makes me think Jaqen's sinister disguises and sorcery kind of relate to it.
/if Mel's power are really come from her faith and not from Asshai, but Jaqen seems to be supporting fact that it's the former which is true/
Edit: now that I think of it, Mel's attitude toward Westerosi religions is quite different from Jaqen's. Just an individual case, perhaps?
Edited by Ko Rakharo, 19 January 2014 - 10:49 PM.