278 replies to this topic

[Jaqen Hghar]

Adam Carmack, on 15 November 2012 - 02:37 AM, said:

There is also the speculation that the sailors on the ship to Braavos were so worried about Arya learning their names so she would not eventually kill them because she knew them

In my view that is more than speculation - it's part of the evidence of the rule of FM not killing people they know.

[NitzanLeo]

Perhaps it isn't that they don't kill people they know, but only refrain form it, just passing the contract to a different Faceless Man. There would be no reason in telling Arya their names, if that was so, but still.

[Black Maester Sam]

NitzanLeo, on 15 November 2012 - 11:19 AM, said:

Perhaps it isn't that they don't kill people they know, but only refrain form it, just passing the contract to a different Faceless Man. There would be no reason in telling Arya their names, if that was so, but still.

It seems to me, that the FM somehow decide, who gives whom the gift, and if they know someone they can opt out.

Quote

Some of the crew shunned her, but others gave her gifts a silver fork, fingerless gloves, a floppy woolen hat patched with leather. One man showed her how to tie sailor’s knots. Another poured her thimble cups of fire wine. The friendly ones would tap their chests, repeating their names over and over until Arya said them back, though none ever thought to ask her name.

Only the friendly sailors gave Arya their names, the others didn't.

[Meddler]

Black Maester Sam, on 15 November 2012 - 02:12 PM, said:

Only the friendly sailors gave Arya their names, the others didn't.

Or maybe she thought they were friendly because they gave her their names. Maybe the others weren't aware of who she was, or didn't take her seriously as a candidate.

I mentioned this in the Aurane Waters post on the ADwD board because it tied to him as well, but I was thinking perhaps her target would be Asha. We already suspect Euron of hiring a Faceless Man to do his kinslaying for him. He's cowed Victarion to an extent, and may not feel the Damphair is a direct threat, but Asha escaped before he could marry her to Erik (and have the marriage consummated) and remains at large with some important, albeit small, Ironborn support in House Harlaw. Euron still has all manner of treasures even having "lost" his Dragon's Egg. Would he again engage the Faceless Men to dispose of his niece?

Sending Arya on a mission back to her former home could also serve as a sort of final test from the Kindly Man that she's truly shed her identity (a test she may well fail). And she could get there by booking passage with one of Ser Justin Massey's hired ships, possibly Aurane Waters' hijacked, partially constructed fleet of royal Dromonds that he fled with when Cersei was deposed. And, of course, she has never met nor does she know Asha's name. She'd obviously recognize the Greyjoy name, but the same could be true for more than half the houses in Westeros, and she wouldn't be a very useful assassin if she couldn't be sent after high value targets in the largest cohesive empire known to man.

It fits pretty well narratively--bringing all these character arcs together (initially Arya, Justin Massey, and potentially Aurane Waters, who will all return to the north among Stannis's host who also hold Theon and Asha), thematically--bringing Arya full circle to finally reconcile her identity or lack thereof, and mechanically--it would put Arya squarely back in the main playing field, plus Asha fits the criteria of a potential target and the person most interested in seeing her killed is wealthy, well-traveled, and has potential history with the Faceless Men as well.

[MidnightKiss]

How far she's sent to kill next would depend on how far along her training is. Surely they would choose the next target close by so they can continue to watch her movements?

I'd like to see her get a "pretty" face next and go into the world of the courtesans to learn these softer skills that she rejected growing up. These skills are excellent for getting information on some marks by flirting etc . Learning to dance, flirt, be dainty and eating lemon cakes would make her think of Sansa and perhaps understand her better. Maybe even go back to search for her...

[aryagonnakill]

1 point that I haven't seen on this thread and it is that if Jaqen has gone rogue from the faceless men, why did the kindly man not seek any information about him from Arya.  Surely if there was a hunt going on for him asking where she was when Jaqen gave her the coin could have been valuable information. I just re-read her meeting of the kindly man when he says he doesn't know Jaqen if they talk more about him later and I missed it someone please correct me.

[Jalapenohitchhiker]

Jaqen Hghar, on 09 November 2012 - 09:01 AM, said:

To me it's pretty obvious that they wanted her to learn their names to make it impossible for her to kill them in the future. They all knew "who" she was - someone who had paid for the passage with the iron coin used by the FM accompanied by the phrase "Valar Morghulis", and thus that she was someone they might have reason to "fear" in the future.
Therefore they all spoke to her and made sure she learned their names, which according to what we know would then make it impossible for her to accept an assignment to award any of them "The Gift". So I think we can establish that at least among Braavosi it is common knowledge that the FM do not kill someone they know.

Well if this is true then she probably would not kill Tommen either, as they met at Winterfell all the way back in book 1. But what about Varys? I don't recall Arya ever actually meeting him, and his death would cause a major stir in the game of thrones. Maybe even Doran Martell? His death could be the trigger that gives Arianne the power to finally get Dorne involved in the war.

[g.o.d]

I would say FM will send her to kill Daenerys. I also believe she won't do it after she'll warg one of her dragons

[northernshe-wolf]

Tommen, maybe? Or her hitlist, of course- only she may not be sent to assassinate her list, but she may use her new abilities to seek revenge on them.

[SaltSmokeAndSnow]

Black Maester Sam, on 14 November 2012 - 11:56 AM, said:

If Jaqen would kill his father, then there can't be a rule "don't kill someone you know".

Except, Jaqen is not who he really is. Jaqen is just his face at that time. Jaqen is no one. The identity he had assumed had a father, but the faceless man you call Jaqen-- his father is irrelevant. That sounds confusing, so think of it like this: When Arya assumes the face (identity) of the ugly little girl, her father is no longer Ned Stark, because she is no longer Arya.

[locke and key]

I don't think Dany as the FM probably thinks she's out of the way but they may send her after aegon

Howver although most of these targets are plausible howver i don't think the FM would send arya after any of these high profile targets as she is only an apprentice

[juanml82]

Jaquen might just be an invented name, hence why the Kindly Man doesn't know it. After all, it makes no sense for Jaquen, or anyone else in that context, to freely trust their real name to other people.

Regarding Danny, as long as she heads for Mereen, she is really far from Braavos so, at the current rate, it would take about two more books for Arya to get there

It doesn't seem smart to send a trainee, or a recently 'graduated' assasin to kill such a high profile target like Cersei or Tommen. Then again, this is Westeros & Essos - Intelligence is not in high supply in those lands.
Also, Westerosis don't usually seem to retort to hiring murderers. Stannis did the murders 'himself' through Mel, and only Euron hired a FM. But nobody thought, for instance, to hire a FM (or a lesser assasin guild) to kill Robb, Tywin or anyone else. So I'm not sure someone in Westeros will hire the FM. Then again, the Iron Bank and Ilirio might very well hire the FM for action in Westeros.

I think the FM might be contracted to kill someone Arya cares about (Jon, Rickon or Sansa if she reveals herself) and that finally makes Arya leave the FM and go to Westeros to try to foil the assasination.

Or she might just become a stowaway in Justin Massey's return trip and be done with it.

Edited by juanml82, 03 January 2013 - 03:57 PM.

[firepoet]

King Robert and the small council thought about hiring a FM and decided they couldn't afford it.

[Loras]

I don't see Arya being tasked with a big name target by the Faceless Men.  Surely if they wanted to kill someone like Dany they would send an assassin with a good track record.  The band of assassins works on their reputation, so risking a novice on such a big target seems silly.  This is why the Faceless Men are more feared than the Sorrowful Men.

I think Arya might be tasked with killing Harys Swyft when he arrives in Braavos at the behest of the Iron Bank.  This is a much less risky prospect than killing someone away from Braavos as she has home turf advantage.  Arya probably wouldn't know the sigil and thus which king he served.  It would be a good task for questioning whether her loyalty and her heart lie in Braavos or Westeros.

[dreamcatcher]

I have a feeling Arya was supposed to progress to a master level after the 5y gap, but now that's discarded, she'll train with a master - and that's, in my opinion, Izembaro. Who'll be sent to kill Dany.

[bemused]

I agree Izembaro is possibly a master FM , or a trainer in a particular skill.. but may be a place where advanced training takes place , since names are avoided at THoB&W.

I've never been able to decide if I think the Kindly Man says he knows no one of the name Jaqen H'Gar , because names are not used , or if Jaqen has taken on a persona of convenience on the mission where he meets Arya.

By what the KM says to Arya, I take it that the FM should not have any personal axe to grind with their victims , so that the act will be simply The Gift , not tainted by hate, revenge or any human emotion. So I don't know if Jaquen has gone rogue ( or at least in the case of Arya , is acting outside his purview ) .. the other option is that he's very high up in the hierarchy of FM , and much depends who he's acting for. Is he in the " OO " category  of an espionage arm of the FM that acts in the interest of Braavos ? Has he been ,either permanently or from time to time, seconded to the IB or the Sealord ( or possible next Sealord ) ? There are just so many possibilities around Jaqen... ( don't get me started )

As for Arya ,I guess I'm in the camp that thinks she'll leave before finishing her training.. For now , I can't feel her abilities as a warg are very compatible with the HoB&W. There's a deeper bond with her past there than would suit them . Even if they might find it useful to just be the "cat in the rafters" sometimes. I can't help feeling the Starks' inter-pack awareness and connection is going to increase , if anything , as they mature and become more aware of the possibilities. Arya may have learned ( be learning) how to pretend to be no-one, but I think that will always be pretense. If she sees a way she could possibly get to be with family ( especially Jon ... or Nymeria ) I don't think there'd be any stopping her. She has Needle ..and Dareon's boots..

Edited by bemused, 06 January 2013 - 10:20 PM.

[Head of The Ned]

Danaerys or Cersei

[Brienne Of Bombay]

Cersei

[Jorah Friendzone]

Herself. She'll be given her own name.

Wishful thinking on my part.

[Fitzochris]

Was it Varys who suggested hiring a FM to kill Dany for Robert? We know for a fact as of the epilogue of ADWD that he wants Cersei out of the way... Just sayin'.