FreeParking Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 TBH, I don't recall if has been shown in the show that Varys could have been working against Aerys. I think the ones who can tell us about this are the Unsullied. I'll see if I can ask a few. No it hasn't, unless something was mentioned in one of the Robert's Rebellion History and Lore things, but that is an extra. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 No it hasn't, unless something was mentioned in one of the Robert's Rebellion History and Lore things, but that is an extra. So... that means Varys could be playing for either team, then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UtherSnow Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 Just say Varys is playing the game, and better than some. This other game that's popular in Essos, is that the board version? Cersei isn't as good a player as she's convinced herself to be. 'In The Game Of Thrones, you win or you die'. So? It's the playing of the game that matters, and will continue to matter until the final piece is moved. Even in a finite space, there can be an infinite number of possibles. In any case, infinity is only 8, rolled on its side. (Cheating is allowed.) Rules? There are none other than to try to win, which is an elusive illusion. In the show, I like how Conleith plays this character. The book character I see as different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatrickStormborn Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 Many of the points you make are not truly elaborated on in the television series. I doubt the average television viewer is even aware of the effects Varys has had on Daenerys' story. The rest could probably be explained away by the fact that he had to look out for his own neck. Moreover, they might change the narrative dramatically enough that Varys proves instrumental in securing Dorne for Daenerys. Which is to say that I do not think the changing of Varys' character is this insurmountable obstacle that you make it seem. I would prefer the book version of course, but it would not surprise me in the slightest if they make Varys into a Targaryen supporter. Sorry but I really dislike predicting future events based on "the viewers are too dumb to remember simple plot points". A simple re-watch will show viewers that Varys putting Dany on the throne does not fit with his past actions: he told Tyrion he hated bloodmagic, he supported her assassination, he left her and Viserys to wander the free cities, he was part of the plot to sell her to the Dothraki, he's warned everyone about her dragons since back in season 2... If he wants Dany on the throne, why is he making her invasion more difficult? If Varys is revealed to be a secret Targaryen supporter in the show, I'm sure many show watchers will love the twist. But I'm sure there will be a number of astute viewers who wll question why his actions and motivations are so contradictory. Book-Varys is a mystery; show-Varys, if supporting Daenerys, will simply be a contradiction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadwood Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 Not necessarily. Griff was raised to be a great leader. Varys making Dany's ascension to the throne could serve multiple purposes. One is to teach her how to lead, another is to temper her into a 'true/Targaryan/idealised' leader. It's a way of thinking, those are fit to rule, shall rule through their mettle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoungGriff89 Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 A simple re-watch will show viewers that Varys putting Dany on the throne does not fit with his past actions: he told Tyrion he hated bloodmagic, he supported her assassination, he left her and Viserys to wander the free cities, he was part of the plot to sell her to the Dothraki, he's warned everyone about her dragons since back in season 2... If he wants Dany on the throne, why is he making her invasion more difficult? If Varys is revealed to be a secret Targaryen supporter in the show, I'm sure many show watchers will love the twist. But I'm sure there will be a number of astute viewers who wll question why his actions and motivations are so contradictory. Well, we have to wonder how much danger Dany and Viserys were truly in growing up across the narrow sea. Varys and Illyrio have all kinds of spies and people they pay off, was somebody not watching the Targaryen heirs unbeknownst to them? That's kind of a reach considering neither the book nor show have hinted at guardian angels, but their experiences are quite similar to those of Aegon and Jon Connington (being hungry, being on the run, mending knots, binding wounds, etc) and I imagine they all suffered similar experiences to shape them into better leaders. If Viserys appeared to not be learning anything and just continued to be an entitled/ spoiled brat then a tenure with the Dothraki might be the humbling he needs. That doesn't mean Varys wasn't a Targ supporter, it just means his intent is as clear as Littlefinger, the same guy who broke up the engagement of Sansa to Loras and then later helped the Tyrells kill Joffrey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeParking Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 Well, we have to wonder how much danger Dany and Viserys were truly in growing up across the narrow sea. Varys and Illyrio have all kinds of spies and people they pay off, was somebody not watching the Targaryen heirs unbeknownst to them? That's kind of a reach considering neither the book nor show have hinted at guardian angels, but their experiences are quite similar to those of Aegon and Jon Connington (being hungry, being on the run, mending knots, binding wounds, etc) and I imagine they all suffered similar experiences to shape them into better leaders. If Viserys appeared to not be learning anything and just continued to be an entitled/ spoiled brat then a tenure with the Dothraki might be the humbling he needs. That doesn't mean Varys wasn't a Targ supporter, it just means his intent is as clear as Littlefinger, the same guy who broke up the engagement of Sansa to Loras and then later helped the Tyrells kill Joffrey. LF wanted Sansa to want to go with him. She thought she had better prospects, so he ruined those and gave her greater motivation to leave in the future. What do you not understand about that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoungGriff89 Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 The marriage meant nothing either way though. Bad example yes when you point out that she probably wouldn't have hated being married to a guy who would prefer other men and Littlefinger probably wouldn't have been able to get her away from High Garden easier than King's Landing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franko99 Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 Sorry but I really dislike predicting future events based on "the viewers are too dumb to remember simple plot points". A simple re-watch will show viewers that Varys putting Dany on the throne does not fit with his past actions: he told Tyrion he hated bloodmagic, he supported her assassination, he left her and Viserys to wander the free cities, he was part of the plot to sell her to the Dothraki, he's warned everyone about her dragons since back in season 2... If he wants Dany on the throne, why is he making her invasion more difficult? If Varys is revealed to be a secret Targaryen supporter in the show, I'm sure many show watchers will love the twist. But I'm sure there will be a number of astute viewers who wll question why his actions and motivations are so contradictory. Book-Varys is a mystery; show-Varys, if supporting Daenerys, will simply be a contradiction. As much as I agree with you, this won't be the first time the show will contradict itself,,,with D&D one never knows Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeParking Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 The marriage meant nothing either way though. Bad example yes when you point out that she probably wouldn't have hated being married to a guy who would prefer other men and Littlefinger probably wouldn't have been able to get her away from High Garden easier than King's Landing. Joffrey was going to die regardless. His timetable is to get Sansa out prior to it or during it. Any later and he will have to come up with a whole new scheme. The Sansa/Loras wedding wouldn't happen until after Joffrey's, so as long as that hope lingered for her she was willing to stay. Thus the hope for that wedding was destroyed. Getting her married to Tyrion, someone who is considered a freak by many and a member of the family she sees as her enemy, gives her further motivation to leave. Moreover it would be a forced marriage instead of one she willingly goes into. King's Landing is a port city and thus ships come in and out all the time. Highgarden is not next to the sea. Land travel would be much more problematic, especially during the war, and Highgarden is much further away than King's Landing from the Vale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoungGriff89 Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 . The Sansa/Loras wedding wouldn't happen until after Joffrey's, so as long as that hope lingered for her she was willing to stay. A detail I completely forgot about. But besides my misunderstanding of Littlefinger's logic, what say you to the idea that the Targaryen heirs were in no real danger across the narrow sea? Is it impossible they were only supposed to perceive being endangered while Varys and Illyrio had people making sure they didn't die? I mean Dany and Viserys didn't have to know they were being watched. The point was to familiarize them with the plight of the common man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kwitter Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 Im not sure but Jamie campbell seems to be in the right direction Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel Green Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 A detail I completely forgot about. But besides my misunderstanding of Littlefinger's logic, what say you to the idea that the Targaryen heirs were in no real danger across the narrow sea? Is it impossible they were only supposed to perceive being endangered while Varys and Illyrio had people making sure they didn't die? I mean Dany and Viserys didn't have to know they were being watched. The point was to familiarize them with the plight of the common man. There's no indication that Robert's government had made any moves against them prior to AGOT, so that much is true. The one action of Varys in the series that is irreconcilable with him being a Dany supporter is his orchestration of the assassination attempt on her. That was only prevented by Jorah's character development, and there is no way Varys could have predicted or relied on that. If he is revealed as a Targaryen supporter, it will be because D&D, when adapting the first season, either did not have as much information on future plots (like Varys) to know the implications, or else hadn't decided on excising Vary's original endgame at that point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoungGriff89 Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 We don't know what the plan in the show actually was, now I know saying that is a stretch but I was unsullied for the first two seasons. I wondered ever since I saw it in the first season if the intention actually was to kill Dany, or whether not there had been a plan for Jorah to intervene and stop the assassination attempt. Jorah had the ability to just let the attempt play out, and with Daenerys dead he'd go home since he had the pardon from the king but what was to stop a little bird from giving him the Kevan Lannister treatment on Bear Island? I always thought since the show gave us a lot of Jorah's pov that maybe he was supposed to do the right thing and save Dany but he had personally considered not doing it, in the show the kid gave the message to Jorah. If Jorah knew an assassination attempt was going to happen why not just send him a pardon after the fact? I mean Varys had to do whatever he had to do to keep the small council under the impression he was on their side. The King has to seal a royal pardon, or at least the hand so the letter had to exist. Shoot, Ned Stark actually called Jorah Mormont a traitor (exiled for treason or something) and Littlefinger pointed out that he sold slaves, that didn't make him a traitor. And this is also a question of show exposition vs book exposition, if it didn't happen on screen or get mentioned in some way then we can only assume something from the book applies, we can't say definitively. All D & D would really have to do is a minute of dialogue from Varys saying "I knew Jorah would do the right thing and stop the assassination, and we had people watching the Targaryens their whole life so they weren't endangered in exile." At that point it doesn't matter what happened in the book, the show explained it. May not have been a great explanation but there was an explanation. TL:DR the assassination "attempt" could have easily been orchestrated for Jorah to step in and stop it, therefore giving Khal Drogo a motivation to invade Westeros. It was supposed to come across as Jorah's character development in the first season making us wonder if he was going to allow the assassination to go through so he could go home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isobel Harper Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 Its easier to make girls look younger than boys. IMO you don't want Aegon looking any older than about 20, as I think his youth is critical to his character. Certainly you don't want him looking as old as Jon and Robb did in the first season. Nicholas Hoult can pass as much younger than he is; I think he's the perfect choice. The trick will be getting him. Why? In the books, Aegon is older than Robb, Jon, or Dany. At the beginning of A Game of Thrones (the book), Aegon would be around 16 and Jon and Robb around 14. Also, the show increases Dany's age to 18 (not 13) at the beginning of the story due to legal reasons, which would make Aegon older as well. Since Daenerys is 18 at the beginning of the show, she's about 20 when she hits Meereen, if the show's time progression is parallel with the books. Therefore, Aegon would be about 23 when he appeared on the show, as Aegon is about 3 years old than Daenerys. (In a Dance of Dragons, Daenerys is 15 while Aegon is 18.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isobel Harper Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 Youg Griff was born within a year or so of the following characters.Dany T (actress born 1987)Robb S (actor born 1986)Jon S (actor born 1986)Why does the Aegon need to be 4 years younger?Please note, this is NOT a call for Jamie Campbell-Bower he is simply not a strong enough actor, either in talent, or in physique for someone with years of military training. To say he's too old, whilst simultaneously being 2 years younger than his direct peers seems... silly I agree Jamie Campbell-Bower is much too young to play Aegon. Most of the suggestions I've just read through here don't seem to fit the character at all, though most of them might do well as another Targaryen, if there were any. At the end of A Dance of Dragons, Aegon is seen to be charasmatic and inspiring. He leads a successful attack on Storm's End, one of the most impenetrable castles in Westeros. A teen certainly could not portray that, I feel. There's also a problem that I've noticed with the "Targaryen silver" in regards to how it would suit most male actors. It could very easily come off as too "Malfoy" or feminine on a lot of men, even on actors strikingly attractive in their own natural hair color. It suited Harry Lloyd and though it did come of just a tad bit "Malfoy," it suited the character who was a villain more or less. Some suggestions on here that I see as fitting are Douglas Booth and Alex Pettyfer. Travis Fimmel might be another possibilty (although probably too old - at least 10 years older than Aegon is supposed to be) and might be able to pull off a being a Targaryen if he cleaned up the "viking/widling" look show here. He also already has the Targaryen eyes, it seems. (On another note, I've always envisioned Targaryens/Valyrians as vikings who long gave up their ships for dragons and their own "Rome," i.e. Valyria.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isobel Harper Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Max Irons?http://blogs.coventrytelegraph.net/passtheremote/max%20irons.jpg(Added to add picture!) I've managed to see the first episode of The White Queen, and I was quite impressed with him. He wouldn't make a bad Aegon at all. (Although I'm not sure how he'd look in a platinum blond wig. ;) ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alcasinoroyale Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 What about Jack O'Connell for Aegon? Game of Thrones does have Joe Dempsie and Hannah Murray from Skins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isobel Harper Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 What about Jack O'Connell for Aegon? Game of Thrones does have Joe Dempsie and Hannah Murray from Skins. Hmm, I don't really see him as a Targaryen, but it might be his accent. I'd never heard of him before, but he seems to be a pretty good actor from what I managed to find on YouTube. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stringer Bill Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Max Pirkis should play Aegon. It is known Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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