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R+L = Jon and Meera Reed?


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Alright I found it - Meera does have green eyes, but it is described later in Storm of Swords





Meera Reed was sixteen, a woman grown, but she stood no higher than her brother. All the crannogmen were small, she told Bran once when he asked why she wasn’t taller. Brown-haired, green-eyed, and flat as a boy, she walked with a supple grace that Bran could only watch and envy. Meera wore a long sharp dagger, but her favorite way to fight was with a slender three-pronged frog spear in one hand and a woven net in the other.



Storm of Swords Chapter 9 - Bran 2


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  • 5 months later...

Wasn't it that GRRM told Alfie Allen about Jon's parenage in exchange for asking an other question before?


I kinda like this theory, but I think it's unlikely as Meera is a "minor" character. Jon had his own POVs. Although we meet Meera early in the second book, and Bran's chapters focus on her quite much (there are only 3 people to describe, so..). Still, we don't know what is going on in her head.


Something StarWarsish can be interpretted both ways, but there are other popular stories about this boy/girl who doesn't know his parents, and eventually discovers they were of royal blood. I agree Luke Skywalker's story is one of the best-known. But the special thing about is, there are twins (furthermore, they don't look the same, if I remember well). It could be also that Jon has a twin brother, but if he turned out to have a twin sibling, it is most likely to be Meera, because Howland Reed was to only person Ned could trust + he was at ToJ.


Now she is with Bran, but will she stay at Bloodraven's till the end? Why? She might learn something about the Others e Children, something that could help the NW, for example. Even if she is not Jon's twin sister, she could have an important role. (I admit, I like her).


Well, if GRRM will take us further north, as he promised in an interview, Meera could even be a good POV character, because now she is in a good position- far, far north already. Jojen will die, right? And Bran has to stay and learn, right?


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I don't see why Alfie's account necesarily means Jon should have a sister. I think he only meant that Jon is the son of the enemy (Rhaegar).



Besides, Meera does not look like a Stark or Targaryen. She is described as a typical crannogman.


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  • 3 weeks later...

We are also assuming that the size of crannogmen is genetic and not due to the swamps they live in. If their size is due to their environment and not genetics then Meera could Look like a crannogmen due to her growing up there and not be Howland's biological daughter.

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  • 2 months later...

I'm starting to think that this could actually be a possibility.


The biggest clue comes from the series so it might not be worth much but I'm really wondering why they cast Meera in GoT? Or more specifically why it was important to have both Reed siblings in the series?


D&D's usual MO is to merge siblings into one person whenever possible even if they have to bend over backwards to make it work. Loras, Willas and Garlan are only portrayed as Loras who is threatened with being made a KG but can't because he obviously is Mace's only son and he is also supposed to marry Cersei. What?!?


In season 5 they are apparently trying to merge Arianne, Quentyn and Trystane into Doran's single heir Trystane which will obviously go down really terrible as well.


But with Jojen and Meera who both have only had one important task/ character trait so far - Jojen guiding Bran in greenseeing and Meera acting as their protector - they were OK with giving those roles to two different actors even though this time around it would have actually made sense to merge them into one character either by making Jojen a bit more warrior-like, or if they already knew he'd die halfway through the story and Meera would become important later on by giving his greenseer abilities to her.



The only reason I see why it would make sense not to do this is if they need to have the character Meera somewhere far in the North once the final battle starts but they don't want to draw attention to the fact that she is important so they can't give her any special green seer powers. Right now she is just Jojen's older sister who is better at fighting and hunting than Bran and Jojen. And yet while other characters in the North like Grenn, Pyp or Jojen himself randomly get killed before their book counterparts she is still there.



And she was born in 283, has brown hair and green eyes and looks like a typical crannogman (the only thing we know for sure about their 'look' is that they are smaller than average Northmen). And Jon was born in 283, has dark brown hair, grey eyes and is not particularly tall.



Add to that the fact that she was raised by the one man still alive who was present at the ToJ.



Add to that the Alfie Allen Star Wars quote and - I don't know - but I've seen a lot more crack-pot-y theories than this one.

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I'm starting to think that this could actually be a possibility.

The biggest clue comes from the series so it might not be worth much but I'm really wondering why they cast Meera in GoT? Or more specifically why it was important to have both Reed siblings in the series?

D&D's usual MO is to merge siblings into one person whenever possible even if they have to bend over backwards to make it work. Loras, Willas and Garlan are only portrayed as Loras who is threatened with being made a KG but can't because he obviously is Mace's only son and he is also supposed to marry Cersei. What?!?

In season 5 they are apparently trying to merge Arianne, Quentyn and Trystane into Doran's single heir Trystane which will obviously go down really terrible as well.

But with Jojen and Meera who both have only had one important task/ character trait so far - Jojen guiding Bran in greenseeing and Meera acting as their protector - they were OK with giving those roles to two different actors even though this time around it would have actually made sense to merge them into one character either by making Jojen a bit more warrior-like, or if they already knew he'd die halfway through the story and Meera would become important later on by giving his greenseer abilities to her.

The only reason I see why it would make sense not to do this is if they need to have the character Meera somewhere far in the North once the final battle starts but they don't want to draw attention to the fact that she is important so they can't give her any special green seer powers. Right now she is just Jojen's older sister who is better at fighting and hunting than Bran and Jojen. And yet while other characters in the North like Grenn, Pyp or Jojen himself randomly get killed before their book counterparts she is still there.

And she was born in 283, has brown hair and green eyes and looks like a typical crannogman (the only thing we know for sure about their 'look' is that they are smaller than average Northmen). And Jon was born in 283, has dark brown hair, grey eyes and is not particularly tall.

Add to that the fact that she was raised by the one man still alive who was present at the ToJ.

Add to that the Alfie Allen Star Wars quote and - I don't know - but I've seen a lot more crack-pot-y theories than this one.

You're right about casting both Reeds when they could just change Jojen a bit more like his sister. But I think that they casted her is because of Hodor. OK, it sounds crazy, but lemme explain. After season 4 finale, Meera doesn't have anything to do there, Her brother is dead and Bran is with 3EC. But if she's not useful anymore, why they didn't kill her instead of her brother in scene like Meera sacrifices herself for saving Jojen? The thing is that Bran is now where he's supposed to be; he won't need anymore help from Meera or Hodor. I think that Meera is going to be fuck up because of her brother's death and Hodor is kinda scare of himself when Bran is possessing him and he can't do anything. They'll have a huge quarrel with the CotF and 3EC and they'll decide to return to their home (probably Greywatch, because Winterfell is burned down), so the CotF will help them to not get killed by the skeletons and they will get out of scene. Without Meera, Hodor will be fucked up and useless in there and he will get probably killed by something. With Meera, he has a possibility of surviving because Meera is capable of doing lots of things in woods and Hodor can't do anything for himself. So the only reason they casted Meera is for not killing Hodor. Hodor is well beloved and maybe in a future we will see him in an important role. I don't think that Meera has a major role except being Jojen's sister. That would make sense with the actor who plays Hodor saying that he'll not be in Season 5 and Bran yes.

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I'm starting to think that this could actually be a possibility.

The biggest clue comes from the series so it might not be worth much but I'm really wondering why they cast Meera in GoT? Or more specifically why it was important to have both Reed siblings in the series?

D&D's usual MO is to merge siblings into one person whenever possible even if they have to bend over backwards to make it work. Loras, Willas and Garlan are only portrayed as Loras who is threatened with being made a KG but can't because he obviously is Mace's only son and he is also supposed to marry Cersei. What?!?

In season 5 they are apparently trying to merge Arianne, Quentyn and Trystane into Doran's single heir Trystane which will obviously go down really terrible as well.

But with Jojen and Meera who both have only had one important task/ character trait so far - Jojen guiding Bran in greenseeing and Meera acting as their protector - they were OK with giving those roles to two different actors even though this time around it would have actually made sense to merge them into one character either by making Jojen a bit more warrior-like, or if they already knew he'd die halfway through the story and Meera would become important later on by giving his greenseer abilities to her.

The only reason I see why it would make sense not to do this is if they need to have the character Meera somewhere far in the North once the final battle starts but they don't want to draw attention to the fact that she is important so they can't give her any special green seer powers. Right now she is just Jojen's older sister who is better at fighting and hunting than Bran and Jojen. And yet while other characters in the North like Grenn, Pyp or Jojen himself randomly get killed before their book counterparts she is still there.

And she was born in 283, has brown hair and green eyes and looks like a typical crannogman (the only thing we know for sure about their 'look' is that they are smaller than average Northmen). And Jon was born in 283, has dark brown hair, grey eyes and is not particularly tall.

Add to that the fact that she was raised by the one man still alive who was present at the ToJ.

Add to that the Alfie Allen Star Wars quote and - I don't know - but I've seen a lot more crack-pot-y theories than this one.

Meera gets more book time than the other's you've mentioned is the first reason I think she was included. It would be a much more WTF reaction if there was just no Meera Reed in the show. Other reasons, they probably wanted a female presence included with Bran and Co after Osha splits, and they wanted someone who could legitimately fight. Not Bran warging and not just summer, but an actual character who can just swing a sword. I think it's as simple as that.

I have to think this is 99% no chance of being true. She is just Howland's daughter.

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I'm starting to think that this could actually be a possibility.

The biggest clue comes from the series so it might not be worth much but I'm really wondering why they cast Meera in GoT? Or more specifically why it was important to have both Reed siblings in the series?

I personally think Meera will be a much more important character than most people realize, for two reasons.

1) I think a Jon + Meera romantic match is a very real possibility.

2) See my sig. I think it's much more likely than R+L=J&M

In aSoS, Meera does get quite a bit of book coverage. Part of it comes from when she relates the story of tKotLT. But in other scenes, we get some important glimpses into her character. Both at Queenscrown at at the Wall, Meera goes out of her way to ascend a height at look around at the wide world. It seems very important to her. This girl, even more so than her father, wants to See The World. She wants out of the crannogs.

Maidens in towers, with or without princes waiting outside, are a common fantasy trope. In all of aSoIaF, there's exactly one case of a maiden in a tower where the tower is named after a queen. There's even a crown on the tower. And the prince outside is the real thing. Meera at Queenscrown.

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  • 10 months later...

We are also assuming that the size of crannogmen is genetic and not due to the swamps they live in.  If their size is due to their environment and not genetics then Meera could Look like a crannogmen due to her growing up there and not be Howland's biological daughter.    

Jon is also described as being unusually short (he can't wear his sword on his belt or it drags the ground).  Another clue to Meera being his twin?

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Melisandre didn't "see Jon's sister." She saw a girl on a horse and presumed it was his sister. Big difference. She saw Alys Karstark and just assumed it must be Jon's sister, because that's what she does — jump to wrong conclusions.

 

Well, Mel SAYS she saw Jon's sister.  But sure, she might be wrong, but ... I'm a little leary of people assuming too carelessly that Mel is always wrong about everything she thinks she sees in the flames.  Also ...

 

Alys Karstark is the LEAST convincing explanation for the mystery of the girl in grey.  For a whole host of reasons.  First, she was never confirmed to have worn grey (Jon merely assumes this).  Second, there is no huge endless lake between Karhold and Castle Black.  Third, her horse was dying when she arrived at the Wall, and that's not where Mel saw the dying horse (an already-dying horse probably cannot ride hundreds or thousands of miles from one of Westeros' large lakes).  Fourth, she's a minor character of no importance, so why is GRRM wasting our time with prophesies about her?   Finally, she is not Jon's sister in ANY sense of the word.

 

Yeah, the last objection is the weakest and may not matter.  But the others pose a real difficulty.

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