32 replies to this topic

[BobPhxville]

When Reek comes back to Winterfell to meet Theon, he makes the following statement: "The wretch is dead.  The girls fault.  If she had not run so far, his horse would not have lamed, and we might have been able to flee.  I gave him mine when I saw the riders from the ridge.  I was done with her by then, and he liked to take his turn while they were still warm.  I had to pull him off her and shove my clothes into his hands - calfskin boots and velvet doublet, silver chased swordbelt, even my sable cloack.  Ride for the Dreadfort, I told him, bring all the hel you can.  Take my horse, and here, wear the ring my father gave me, so they'll know you came from me.  He'd learned better then to question me.  By the timethey put that arrow through his back, I'd smeared myself with the girls filth and dressed in his rags.  They might have hanged me anyway, but it was the onlly chance I saw."

I understood pretty much everything else in this book except this section.  Who is he referring to as he and she?  What is he talking about?   I went back and re-read a few times when Reek left, thinking I may get a clue, but I did not.

Thanks for the help.

[_SwordOfTheMorning]

He's saying that he is really Ramsay Bolton. The original "Reek" is dead... basically Ramsay gave Reek his clothes and horse, so when he got killed, people thought Ramsay was dead and Reek was still alive, but really they had sort of switched places, Reek was killed in Ramsay's clothes on Ramsay's horse. Ramsay still lived, but was pretending to be Reek until this moment. The girl is just some girl that they were raping, I think.

[Daniel Dario]

- Ramsay raped a girl/corpse and then let Reek take his turn while she was still warm
- Ramsay knows he will be killed as the son of Lord Bolton and pretends that he wants Reek to get help, even giving up his ring(extremely important to prove your house as shown in the tales of D&E)
- Reek either believes Ramsay or simply fears his reaction in case he didn't follwo his orders
- Reek is killed as it is assumed that he's actually Ramsay
- Ramsay uses the diverted attention to get fitlh on his face and pretend to be reek or a commoner to the eyes of his foes

[BobPhxville]

_{Thanks so much for your responses.  I completely missed that.  I really must be getting old!
Bob}

[Nathan the Calm]

I think it was Lady Hornwood. Because earlier in the book it is said that Ramsey Snow married her. In the Wiki of Ice and Fire it is said that Ramsey locked her in a room and failed to feed her.
Source: http://awoiaf.wester...onella_Manderly

[Bad Hound!]

Nathan the Calm, on 13 November 2012 - 06:53 AM, said:

I think it was Lady Hornwood. Because earlier in the book it is said that Ramsey Snow married her. In the Wiki of Ice and Fire it is said that Ramsey locked her in a room and failed to feed her.
Source: http://awoiaf.wester...onella_Manderly

No it wasn't necessarily Lady Hornwood. It's well known that Ramsay does this with many women, so we don't really know who it was this time, as GRRM does not specify it at all.

As far as we know, Lady Hornwood was left to die in the dungeon. Would Ramsay have freed her to chase her and then shared her with Reek? Well, it's not impossible, I guess, but there is nothing in the book that hints at this. As far as we know, that poor woman was just one that Ramsay picked for his sick game.

[BobPhxville]

Any idea why Theon states that it is Reek when he takes his helmet off?  I don't understand why he thought it was Reek if it was Ramsey that he saw.  

[Bad Hound!]

Do you mean when Ramsay is brought back to Winterfell as a prisoner?
Ramsay's disguised himself to look like Reek. He's got Reek's clothes, he talks like Reek. Reek - dressed as Ramsay, with Ramsay's ring - has just been killed, so it's only natural that Theon would think the survivor is Reek.

Or do you mean when Ramsay comes back with his army to "liberate" Winterfell? Well, then, Theon has always known this person as Reek, so why wouldn't he think he had Reek in front of him?

[BobPhxville]

Oh boy, I really need to go back over that section.  So Freerider, what you are saying is that the person that Theon knew as Reek was always Ramsey...I completely missed that.  So when he took his helmet off, he named him as Reek, but it was Ramsey all along...

[Lummel]

Yes the person that theon called 'Reek' was always Ramsey, Lord Roose's bastard.

[King Tommen]

Another great example as to why the show made the right decision in jettisoning this part of the story completely...

[Distorted Humor]

BobPhxville, on 15 November 2012 - 12:06 PM, said:

Oh boy, I really need to go back over that section.  So Freerider, what you are saying is that the person that Theon knew as Reek was always Ramsey...I completely missed that.  So when he took his helmet off, he named him as Reek, but it was Ramsey all along...

Yes, Ramsey Bolton basically played a long con with our Ironborn Prince.

[Ramsay Gimp]

Just to clear things up for the OP - Theon never met the realk Reek. The "Reek" who served him in Winterfell and then returned to burn the place down was just Ramsay Snow ("but I prefer Bolton") hiding his identity

[Beeromir]

I thought lady Hornwood died locked in a tower, forgotten, of starvation. Didn't she also eat her fingers before she died?

[Lonmouth]

She did.  That's why it was someone else.  Just our future King Ramsay indulging in his amusements.

I also had to re-read all that as it confused me the first time.

[Pauliuris]

Oh God haha I missed it too. I also didn't understand all that mumble Reek (Bolton) says to Thean after he comes back to Winterfell but I kind of just kept reading 'cause I didn't really think it was all that important. Thanks for clarifying.

[Woftis]

It wasn't explained very clearly at all. I couldn't understand what GRRM was getting at so took to Wiki during the chapter. I then re-read that section knowing what GRRM was meaning but it still made little sense.

[Ramsay Gimp]

woftis, on 07 February 2013 - 12:46 PM, said:

It wasn't explained very clearly at all. I couldn't understand what GRRM was getting at so took to Wiki during the chapter. I then re-read that section knowing what GRRM was meaning but it still made little sense.

He's a bit too subtle sometimes. Like when Ramsay says "The wretch is dead," when Theon calls him Reek. Why not have him say "Oh, my sweet Reek is dead." Or something.

[Woftis]

Ramsay Gimp, on 07 February 2013 - 06:21 PM, said:

He's a bit too subtle sometimes. Like when Ramsay says "The wretch is dead," when Theon calls him Reek. Why not have him say "Oh, my sweet Reek is dead." Or something.

Agreed, that would have cleared the whole thing up.

[Pliskin]

King Tommen, on 15 November 2012 - 01:20 PM, said:

Another great example as to why the show made the right decision in jettisoning this part of the story completely...

That was the best part of the entire ASoIaF books.
I hope you're ironic. Because it was the worst decision they ever made in the show, and they made some really bad ones.