Melisandre's glamur (NOT about fingerbones)

[Lady Winter Rose]

Could Melisandre using glamur to hide her real appearance? If so, do you think she is old or just plain looking young woman)? Do you think she is R'holl's undead? Like Beric and Cat? I am convinced that ruby is source of her glamur.

Some things that are worth discussing:

A. Mance is using the same gem Mel is using.

B. Melisandre is in no need for food. But she is in need for sleep. She is in no need for cloak or warm clothes.

Question: Could it be that ruby (glamur) is saving her youth, making her 300 years old woman who will look like 30 years old woman even if she looses her ruby?

C. She survived assisanation attempt. Could it be that she is undead or that she has magic protection from famine, thirst, coldness and poison?

Do we all agree she is using the ruby on her neck as a magical amulet?

[ab aeterno]

This is something that has been speculated fairly frequently, though we don't really have any evidence to support what she looks like without it. Being old or UnDead are two of the more common suppositions.

[Lady Winter Rose]

But we all agree she is using the ruby on her neck as magical token?

[ab aeterno]

I don't know that everyone agrees but it seems to be becoming a tacit assumption.

[Ser Endrew Tarth]

I have been a proponent of the Un-Mel :stillsick: glamoured to look normal theory since I re-read ADwD. Like you said she doesn't require food or sleep. I think when Rattleshirt was burning and she was having trouble keeping the glamours active, the NW and Stannis were very close to seeing her true form.

[Lady Winter Rose]

No, I am saying she is in need for sleep. Just in no need for food.

[ab aeterno]

I think she implies that she doesn't need to sleep, at the same point at which she implies she was sleeping with Stannis.

[Lady Winter Rose]

She implies she was having sex, not dreams.

But I remember she was awaken from dream or rest when servant comes in room.

[ab aeterno]

She implies she was having sex, not dreams.

It can certainly be read (as many people have done,) to suggest that she only really slept at night because she was sleeping with Stannis and that she either doesn't need sleep or needs exceptionally little sleep.

[Ser Endrew Tarth]

Some helpful quotes from the chapter Melisandre pg 407 ADwD:

The Red priestess shuddered. Blood trickled down her thigh, black and smoking. The fire was inside her, an agony, an ecstacy, filling her, searing her, transforming her. Shimmers of heat traced patterns on her skin, insistent as a lover's hand. Strange voices called to her from long days past. "Melony" she heard a woman cry. A man's voice called, "Lot Seven". She was weeping, and her tears were flame. And still she drank it in.

...Melisandre had practiced her art for years beyond count, and she had paid the price...

... Melisandre had spent the night in her chair by the fire, as she often did. With Stannis gone, her bed saw little use. She had no time for sleep, with the weight of the world upon her shoulders. And she feared to dream. Sleep is a little death, dreams the whisperings of the Other, who would drag us all into his eternal night. She would sooner sit bathed in the ruddy glow of her red lord's blessed flames, her cheeks flushed by the wash of heat as if by a lover's kisses. Some nights she drowsed, but never for more than an hour. One day, Melisandre prayed, she would not sleep at all. One day she would be free of dreams. Melony, she thought. Lot seven.

Food. Yes, I should eat. Some days she forgot. R'hllor provided her with all the nourishment her body needed, but that was something best concealed from mortal men.

The mentions of days long past, and mortal men make me think she is un-Mel. It seems based on the info here that she can sleep but doesn't necessarily "need" it, at least not as you or I do. Remember also that Arya describes Lord Beric Dondarrion resting for short periods as well but never bedding down for the night, very similar to Mel here.

[Prince of the North]

Yes, Mel says something along the lines of hardly ever using the bed except when Stannis "visits" and that she needs to remember to eat to keep up appearances. She also thought something along the lines of having studied magic "for years beyond count".

I believe Mel is someone who has received the "kiss of fire" and that she definitely uses a glamour on herself. She's a seductress. I've thought she was using an illusion from first reading about her because her appearance is just too pat - too perfect - for a follower of Rh'llor. I mean, c'mon, she looks like a woman who worships a fire god would look if they could choose how to look.

ETA: Just saw Ser Endrew's quotes after posting the above. Thanks!

[ab aeterno]

Some helpful quotes from the chapter Melisandre pg 407 ADwD:

The mentions of days long past, and mortal men make me think she is un-Mel. It seems based on the info here that she can sleep but doesn't necessarily "need" it, at least not as you or I do. Remember also that Arya describes Lord Beric Dondarrion resting for short periods as well but never bedding down for the night, very similar to Mel here.

Thanks for doing the hard work!

[Lady Winter Rose]

I mean, c'mon, she looks like a woman who worships a fire god would look if they could choose how to look.

Excatly.

[Associate Maester]

I subscribe to the theory of UnMel. I agree that she's glamoured her appearance. I imagine in her true form she's probably...shall we say very very crispy.

[Ser Endrew Tarth]

I subscribe to the theory of UnMel. I agree that she's glamoured her appearance. I imagine in her true form she's probably...shall we say very very crispy.

LOL, What if her ruby choker fell off during a shadow baby making session with Stannis... It would totally be like the scene from "The Shining" :ack: .

[Lady Winter Rose]

LOL, What if her ruby choker fell off during a shadow baby making session with Stannis... It would totally be like the scene from "The Shining" :ack: .

I think most women, if their wear neckleces, do not take it off. Bust is nude, bottucks are nude, why? Some women doesn't even take off shirt.

[Ser Endrew Tarth]

I think most women, if their wear neckleces, do not take it off. Bust is nude, bottucks are nude, why? Some women doesn't even take off shirt.

Is English your first language? :lmao: lol j/k. Not quite understanding what you're getting at here. I wish some women does even take off shirt. :blushing:

[Uncle Impe]

I really think she is Daeron Blackfyre in disguise. What better disguise could a Black dragon have than wearing all red? I think this is a plot to sit her son on the throne. We dont know who he is yet but we shall find out soon enough.

[Ser Endrew Tarth]

I really think she is Daeron Blackfyre in disguise. What better disguise could a Black dragon have than wearing all red? I think this is a plot to sit her son on the throne. We dont know who he is yet but we shall find out soon enough.

Please explain shadow baby sex with Stannis if mel is a glamoured man. Is it a shadow butt baby... LOL I Cannot finish that thought it is too funny! :drunk: So I suppose you are in the Euron is the dusky woman camp as well huh? Gross... :ack:

[Andy Blackfyre]

I've considered before that Mel might be Shiera Seastar mainly because they both use magic and they both are described as having heart shaped faces. But of course, why would she not change the shape of her face as part of her glamour? And where does the "Melony Lot Seven" come in? Unless she was captured by slavers and she changed her name for some reason. It's interesting but not much to go on.