400 replies to this topic

[BigFatCoward]

can i ask the arsenal fans who they think would be able to do a better job than wenger with the resources available?  that they could reasonably hope to get.

[Calibandar]

Quote

Given what he has given to the club, and yes I'm including the years in the champions league as an achievement, he should at least be given enough time when we're not hamstrung by the Emirates deal

Maybe it is this endless patience on the side of many Arsenal fans and their board, which has actually resulted in the lack of prizes and results?

I mean, get the obvious stuff out of the way. Wenger has done great, had brought the club to a far higher level than before, deserves respect for his past achievements etc. All of that is true.

And yet, the other side of the story is that Arsenal is winning nothing at all with him at the helm, and even the hallowed beautiful football of years gone by has disappeared like snow under the sun. Nowadays, seeing Arsenal is not something I look forward to anymore. And debates about whether Wenger should be sacked have gone on for years now. When is it time to finally slash the knot?

I do not see what is so wrong about giving someone else a chance with what is a really talented squad. I don't agree that Wenger is performing as best as a manager can with the current side, let alone with some reinforcements.

Arsenal has a squad that should be in the top 4. I rate the squad higher than Spurs, Liverpool, Newcastle, Everton. David Moyes is doing better with a lesser squad. What I see now is that expectations of the squad are scaled down, now that people see Wenger is doing poorly with the team, for another season. I don't think that's right, Wenger is underachieving with this squad. With this squad, Arsenal should be doing better.

He's had his chance, I 'm all for someone else getting the job.

Edited by Calibandar, 12 December 2012 - 10:27 AM.

[polishgenius]

Calibandar, on 12 December 2012 - 10:24 AM, said:

Arsenal has a squad that should be in the top 4. I rate the squad higher than Spurs, Liverpool, Newcastle, Everton. David Moyes is doing better with a lesser squad. What I see now is that expectations of the squad are scaled down, now that people see Wenger is doing poorly with the team, for another season. I don't think that's right, Wenger is underachieving with this squad. With this squad, Arsenal should be doing better.

He's had his chance, I 'm all for someone else getting the job.

Yeah, but you said that about Ferguson.

Arsenal have finished in the top four every single season Wenger's been in charge, let's at least give him the chance to not do so before sacking him for not doing so (they're going to, by the way). People love to bring up the fact that they haven't won anything for years, but it's no coincidence that that's happened as Chelsea and City have come into money.

Yes, there are some pathetic performances in there and Wenger's made some mistakes, but what manager hasn't? The question remains - who do you think would do better that Arsenal can actually get?

Me, I think the most likely candidate is Roberto Martinez, but you can just imagine Arsenal fan's reaction if they make that swap.

[Raja]

I don't agree with most of the points you make, but that is hardly a surprise. I would say we've played fairly good football on occasion this season, it has certainly not been the best ( and the results show that ) but I still find that we're a good team to watch. Then again, I am most probably biased when I say that. We finished above all of the teams you mentioned Cali, I don't think we can finish higher than 3rd and given that it's where we finished last year forms the basis as to why I don't want Arsene gone. Judge the manager at the end of the season, not halfway through it. The majority of the Arsenal fans are patient, and I wouldn't want our club to fire managers every 2-3 seasons. That works for Chelsea to a certain extent, but I wouldn't want that for Arsenal. It's difficult not to bring money into this, but we don't have the capacity to spend the same amount of money that either of the United clubs do.

Do I think that any other manager can do better than third with this squad? No. Except for Giroud, we don't really have another out and out striker. Podolski can play there, but he has a tendency to go missing on quite a few occasions .

Calibandar, on 12 December 2012 - 10:24 AM, said:

. What I see now is that expectations of the squad are scaled down,

The first 11 are good, but the squad is weak. We have no cover in the midfield on up front. Compare that to say United, who have RVP, Rooney and Hernandez . There lies the gulf between the two teams, depth has been the issue with Arsenal team for the last 3-4 seasons. He should be given time till we actually have the spending power to at least be comparable to the Chelsea, United, City.

[Pope Nasrudin the Second]

I think Wenger's one of the best managers in the world, and that it would be a mistake to get rid of him.  Arsenal owners, fans and players need to consider what he's done for the club and with what resources, how the Premiership has changed in recent years (hell, Wenger should get bonus points for how much of the City roster he scouted and developed), and thank their lucky stars that he's still around.  They should be talking about building him a statue, not firing him.

[Calibandar]

Fine by me, finish fifth, sixth or seventh, get ejected in the quarter finals of the CL and win no FA Cup this year. After that you will say again how surely you need to give Wenger and his squad another chance next year.

If that is sufficient and all that you think this Arsenal team can achieve, I can see why you would not even consider replacing him. I think they can do better, with the material they have.

[Daeric]

Calibandar, on 12 December 2012 - 02:23 PM, said:

Fine by me, finish fifth, sixth or seventh, get ejected in the quarter finals of the CL and win no FA Cup this year. After that you will say again how surely you need to give Wenger and his squad another chance next year.

If that is sufficient and all that you think this Arsenal team can achieve, I can see why you would not even consider replacing him. I think they can do better, with the material they have.

Its more the fact that when you have a manager of Wenger's quality you do not by any means make a knee jerk reaction in the middle of a season, if Arsenal did that we would have lost Wenger after the drumming by Man United last season when the team was being utter utter dire. I can only envision Wenger being ousted if he still refuses to spend during the next transfer window and Arsenal then fail to qualify for the CL.

[kuroishi]

Kid Charlemagne, on 12 December 2012 - 09:37 AM, said:

Dude, you have a team called Evian. And don't get me started on cycling team names.

Well, Evian is a city as well but that's beside the point since the Evian in the team's name actually do comes from the mineral water.
But the team is actually named Evian Thonon Gaillard, and based in the city of Thonon-les-bains, in kind of a New York Red Bull deal.

[Pope Nasrudin the Second]

Llorente's put on his fishnet stockings and is dangling his leg in the direction of England.  I wonder how he'd fit at Arsenal, or if Arsene is checking his wallet?

[polishgenius]

nasrudin and 99 others, on 12 December 2012 - 04:08 PM, said:

Llorente's put on his fishnet stockings and is dangling his leg in the direction of England.  I wonder how he'd fit at Arsenal, or if Arsene is checking his wallet?

Well, Arsene did basically promise to sign someone of Llorente's ilk if Giroud and Podolski didn't settle in adequately and start making up for the RvP shortfall by January.
Of course, fuck knows what Wenger regards as being okay from them lot now.

Cavani would be the ideal for them though I reckon, if they could somehow nab him.

Mind you, they're also rumoured to be going for Nani, who would not only massively improve their tippy-tappy tendencies but provide Giroud with a ready supply line of useful crosses to work with, which would help them massively on its own.

[Raja]

Calibandar, on 12 December 2012 - 02:23 PM, said:

If that is sufficient and all that you think this Arsenal team can achieve, I can see why you would not even consider replacing him. I think they can do better, with the material they have.

When did I say that is sufficient? I don't think our squad is better than United, City and maybe even Chelsea. What I am saying is that 3rd or 4th is what we can expect from this squad. Do you honestly think we have a squad for coming 1st or 2nd? What is the point of getting rid of him mid-way through the season? I'm more worried about our board, do they have enough footballing experience to hire someone who will do a better job? Should we be beating Bradford? Off course we should, but these things happen. I remember United getting knocked out by Leeds I think? It's not an isolated problem. What I do want from the Club is probably a more public proclamation on what our strategy is going into the next 3-4 seasons, we need the owner to lay that down for us. As of yet, he has failed to do this.



To people in the US, has Kronke been like this about the couple off other teams he owns?

Regarding transfers, I don't think we're going to get more than 1 player into the club. Lllorente? I doubt it, i'd love to be proven wrong but I think he will make a signing like Arshavin / Reyes

Edited by Raja, 12 December 2012 - 04:59 PM.

[mormont]

Best story of the day:

http://www.bbc.co.uk...europe-20700529

Quote

A football fan has stolen media attention in Italy after being the only supporter to show up to watch his club play an away game in the top league.

Udinese fan Arrigo Brovedani was the club's sole supporter in Genoa for a Serie A match against local team Sampdoria.

The 30-something wine merchant found himself alone in the visitors' section.

But Sampdoria stewards gave him coffee and home fans invited him for a drink after the match.

[Jon AS]

mormont, on 12 December 2012 - 05:16 PM, said:

Best story of the day:

That is awesome and depressing in equal measure. I know attendances in Serie A are down, but no away fans for a game played a mere four hours' drive from home? That's crazy.

[polishgenius]

Jon AS, on 12 December 2012 - 05:25 PM, said:

That is awesome and depressing in equal measure. I know attendances in Serie A are down, but no away fans for a game played a mere four hours' drive from home? That's crazy.

Four hours (and I think that's being conservative, it's a 500km drive) is a lot for a Monday night game...

I mean, from my British perspective, it's a lot for any game, it's only a few miles short of the longest trip in the English top flight as it stands as far as I know (Newcastle, or possibly Sunderland, to Southampton) but an eight hour round trip plus the game is, you know, the whole day. Factor in that Udinese don't have that many fans anyway (it's only a 90k population city) and it's not that surprising.

Fair play to the man.

Edited by polishgenius, 12 December 2012 - 06:17 PM.

[Jon AS]

polishgenius, on 12 December 2012 - 06:17 PM, said:

Four hours (and I think that's being conservative, it's a 500km drive) is a lot for a Monday night game...

Distances in Germany and Italy tend to be greater, obviously. I'm having some trouble finding useful numbers, but for example let's take Kaiserslautern, a city exactly the same size as Udine (also like Udinese, a club that isn't as successful as it used to be, currently they're in the second division). During the 2010-11 season they apparently never had less than 2,500 away supporters. Admittedly, the only midweek game that season was away to Dortmund for them, which is only a three hours' drive.

[BigFatCoward]

Newcastle is the furthest journey for a lot of teams and i don't think i ever saw less than 100 away fans even when we were in the first division and playing shitty little clubs, mid week or weekend, made no difference.  do italian teams in general take fewer away fans?  is it a cultural thing?

Edited by BigWeirdB'stard, 13 December 2012 - 06:08 AM.

[AlexT]

Newcastle is a great away day. Get the train up the beautiful East Coast, cross those cool bridges over the Tyne and then St. James' itself is pretty rock and roll.

But yeah, it's a long way.

Stoke is a fun away trip if only for the ferocity of the home crowd. It is however in Stoke, which is an enormous black mark against it.

Portsmouth is the worst away day I've had. Terrible place.

[Daeric]

Jon AS, on 12 December 2012 - 05:25 PM, said:

That is awesome and depressing in equal measure. I know attendances in Serie A are down, but no away fans for a game played a mere four hours' drive from home? That's crazy.

From what I understand from the story is that it was being televised so the fans didn't want to risk driving across Northern Italy which is heavily iced at the moment.

[baxus]

in arsene wenger's defense, i wouldn't pin all the blame for arsenal's lack of trophies on him.
he had a successful run in the beginning, then the club decided to build a new stadium and reduced his transfer budget.
doing business in transfer market under those conditions is never easy, and after a several season of it, star players began to leave the club, some for more money, some for a better chance of winning trophies, some for both...
it's a string of events that makes perfect sense.

on the other hand, what doesn't make sense is that the only player i can think of that left arsenal without the club making a huge sack of money is flamini, and that money mostly hasn't been used to bring in replacements.
i guess arsenal are determined not to spend insane ammounts of money, but over the last couple of seasons they did start buying players one's actually heard of before - arteta, mertesacker, podolski, giroud.
hopefully, wenger will turn them into a team as competitive as arsenal has had at the turn of the century.

[AlexT]

Ben Arfa injured again? Shame that. One of those players it's always enjoyable to watch.

Having said that, I am deep into a City win on Paddy Power so this might help...