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Would you be upset if the HBO writers have to come up with their own ending?


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#1 chuck norris 42

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 04:46 AM

If the HBO show catches up to the books and then passes the books it would not worry me if they came up with their own ending. Is this a heresy to the vast majority of readers?

#2 The Drunkard

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 05:11 AM

I'd be annoyed that the show finished first, but GRRM has told them how the series ends. Not every detail, but the big picture.

#3 danm_999

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 05:21 AM

If the show passed the books, and decided to just make up its own ending regardless of what Martin was doing with the books, yes that'd be pretty bad.

#4 breezin

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 06:04 AM

I'd just be irritated by the inevitable discussion of how the new dialog is inconsistant with George's characters.

To be honest, I'd just be happy with some sort of resolution. With few literaty constraints, the HBO series might have a more cinematic climax than the books. I'd enjoy the show for that and enjoy the book series as a good read. Two different things, each excellent in its own right (like the James Bond novels versus the movies). Besides, it might be more fun to watch the show not knowing what happens next.

#5 waaimasjien

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 06:30 AM

I think I would try to hold off watching the last season until I'd read the last book. Would I be annoyed, I'm not sure. I'd find it a pity, but I'm quite good at seeing the books and the show as two entirely different mediums and therefore stories.

#6 Peasant Rebel Leader

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 06:38 AM

I'd be more annoyed at the fan reaction /wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' /> I can see the endless shitstorm on these fan sites already now, just extrapolate from the House of the Undying anger...

As for me personally, I'd have no problem with it as the show and the books are two different things so far, different mediums demand different stories which means the two are two different sides of the same coin to me. [So for example the growth of the (child) actors in the tv shows demand that Sansa for example needs to act differently to be believable. So you can't do the same storyline with her...]

As for the actual ending, I'd guess there are several different scenarios:

1) GRRM tells the producers just the ending, the writers then write good story arcs to get there, totally independent.
2) GRRM tells the producers the ending and the story arcs (if he has already fleshed them out enough), the actual dialogs/scenes are written by the writers.
3) GRRM takes a sabbatical from writing the books and looks out that the tv show is as canonical as possible.
4) The writers ignore GRRM's idea and finish the show in as many seasons as they are gonna get from HBO. (or stop the show a season early)

I guess the reactions would be vastly different depending on scenario. I'd be very dissapointed by 4, but would be ok with everything else /wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />

#7 Myrish Swamp Thing

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 08:30 AM

I'd be more annoyed at the fan reaction /wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' /> I can see the endless shitstorm on these fan sites already now, just extrapolate from the House of the Undying anger...

As for me personally, I'd have no problem with it as the show and the books are two different things so far, different mediums demand different stories which means the two are two different sides of the same coin to me. [So for example the growth of the (child) actors in the tv shows demand that Sansa for example needs to act differently to be believable. So you can't do the same storyline with her...]

As for the actual ending, I'd guess there are several different scenarios:

1) GRRM tells the producers just the ending, the writers then write good story arcs to get there, totally independent.
2) GRRM tells the producers the ending and the story arcs (if he has already fleshed them out enough), the actual dialogs/scenes are written by the writers.
3) GRRM takes a sabbatical from writing the books and looks out that the tv show is as canonical as possible.
4) The writers ignore GRRM's idea and finish the show in as many seasons as they are gonna get from HBO. (or stop the show a season early)

I guess the reactions would be vastly different depending on scenario. I'd be very dissapointed by 4, but would be ok with everything else /wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />


/agree.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':agree:' />

I'd be disappointed by scenario 3 as well, because that would mean delays in the last book(s), and because it might be cool to compare the endings.

#8 Crown

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 10:27 AM

I don't think there's a possibility that the show will end before Martin released his last book. No way.

#9 Buckwheat

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 11:18 AM

I would probably stop watching until the last book comes out. I do not want to be spoiled by the series for the books.

Actually I would like it better if they just wrote their own ending as they see fit and leaving GRRM to write it as he sees fit.

#10 boojam

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 01:46 PM

If the HBO show catches up to the books and then passes the books it would not worry me if they came up with their own ending. Is this a heresy to the vast majority of readers?


First , as mysterious as HBO is there will be a season 4, we won't see that 2014.
My guess is that season 3 is going to stick pretty much to SoS.
What they mix from novels 4 and 5 into season 4 I can't speculate on.
For novels 4 and 5 , one could really stick with the story but jazz it up (in a classy way, of course).
That could be seasons 5 and 6, 2016!
Lord Geroge should be finished with novel 6, how many pages?.

As someone said George(and even as GRRM has related) has told D&D the general outline of the rest of the story, tho I am not exactly sure what that means!
I doubt D&D would ever make up their own ending.

#11 Harle The Handsome

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 03:34 PM

As someone said George(and even as GRRM has related) has told D&D the general outline of the rest of the story, tho I am not exactly sure what that means!
I doubt D&D would ever make up their own ending.


They shouldn't and that should never be mistaken for won't. I am one of many people on this forum who have said that D & D made a mockery of many of the storyline arcs (especially Arya's). The best explanation for why can be summed up in a quote GRRM made about the Spiderman movies:

The ones that stay closest to what Stan Lee wrote in the 60's are the best, and the ones where the directors and screenwriters say, "Ah, we can improve on Stan Lee."
...Well, no you can't.

#12 Cloaked

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 03:36 PM

I don't think there's a possibility that the show will end before Martin released his last book. No way.


I wish I shared your optimism... I remember when the series got picked up and GRRM was asked if they passed him and he was saying he had such a head start and that ASOS would have to be split into 2 seasons and et cetera, and yet suddenly here we are and S3 will be airing in spring with WOW seemingly nowhere closer to coming out than it was 3 yrs ago...

But that being said, it would be a pretty major accomplishment for the show to continue for that long, I certianly want it to go to the end of the books but at this rate I dont see how the show doesn't come to a natural conclusion well before the last ASOIAF book. I want the show if it does go to the end to be consistent with the story GRRM has laid out... but that said I would completely lose my shit. I mean I would have to not only NOT watch the show but also completely avoid anything ASOIAF related on the internet, and even then it would still probably get spoiled through some random pop culture reference you cant see coming in another medium.

I've been reading the books for too long to be cheating of getting to find out how it all wraps up from the direct source.

#13 Newstar

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 04:50 PM

I don't know why the writers/showrunners don't just wait until the source work is well and truly finished before starting to adapt it. I'm still scratching my head as to why the GOT showrunners decided it was a good idea to start adapting the show given that GRRM was still two (well, three at the time) books away from finishing the series, but it does tend to happen.

This happens a lot when serial works are adapted for TV before the serial is finished: the TV adaptation writers get as far as they can using the source work, which is still midstream, and then "diverge" at some point to finish the series with the TV show's own canon. Another alternative is that the TV show uses a lot of plotty "filler" arcs which don't substantially mess with the original work's continuity and provide some time for the original work to "catch up" and end. The second option wouldn't work in a series like Game of Thrones, where even the smallest plot changes have a huge potential ripple effect, but I've seen it used elsewhere.

I used to watch a lot of Japanese anime (nerd alert, I know), and this happens all the time when Japanese comic books are adapted for TV, especially since they're often given a TV anime adaptation long before the original comic book run is ended. One series where this happened was called Fullmetal Alchemist: the original TV anime adaptation was well underway long before the comic book series would be complete. So in this original TV adaptation (let's call it Version A), the writers followed the original series source canon as far as they could (up to where the comic book series was at that point in time), and then introduced their own canon which led to its own ending. A follow-up movie was later released based on that TV canon. However, the comic book series was still ongoing and introduced plot developments which tended in a very different direction from the TV show's version. So what happened is that there was another TV anime adaptation made, released shortly before the comic book series ended, covering the entire comic book series from the beginning, which followed the comic book series canon pretty much to a T and was a straightforward adaptation of the comic book series (Version "B").

I guess it depends how much further GRRM gets in the books. If he's able to pick up the pace in getting books out, and if the series is indefinitely renewed, then by the time the showrunners have to start adapting past ADWD, there might actually be a book out for them to use, and the last book might be much closer to publication. However, if GRRM is bogged down as he was for ADWD and/or experiences some health crisis that prevents him from writing, we might see something a lot closer to the "Version A" scenario (adaptation writers come up with their own continuity/ending in the absence of source canon material). The showrunners are respectful towards the source material, but they've shown themselves willing to make significant changes to streamline the books for TV, so I could see them doing this.

I think all of this is academic, though, since it assumes that the series will be renewed indefinitely, and I wouldn't bet on the series being renewed past Season 4.

Edited by Newstar, 25 November 2012 - 04:52 PM.


#14 MyLittleDirewolf

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 05:00 PM

I figure the show is going to have to come up with its own ending. Whether it's GRRM's ending or what the showrunners decide on, who knows. There is no way the show will still be going by the time the 7th book is out. TWOW will be out maybe in 2014, if we're lucky, and ADOS at least 4 years after that. I don't see GoT going on for what, ten seasons? Sure, I'd love it, but it's not realistic. Maybe the show will end, but it won't be the true end of the saga, like they'll find a way to end it during ADWD or something.

#15 Crown

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 05:24 PM

They can always put the show on hold for a year if GRRM needs the time to finish his novel. Let me be optimistic, I don't even want to think about the other scenario's for now.

#16 seppuku

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 06:55 PM

They can always put the show on hold for a year if GRRM needs the time to finish his novel. Let me be optimistic, I don't even want to think about the other scenario's for now.


No, you can't put the show on hold unless you like recasting when the actors go find another job. This isn't Curb Your Enthusiasm where they let Larry David work at his own pace.

#17 YouSnowNothing

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 07:55 PM

I could see the show maybe having a one-year hiatus, if they reach a point where GRRM is definitely very close to finishing and just needs a little extra time. Trouble is, we know how a little time can turn into a lot... most likely, the show will end first, will follow GRRM's ending but change a some details.

Honestly, I wouldn't be too fussed if that happened. I love the books, but I don't think they're as flawless as some fans make them out to be. The books are better than the show in some respects, but the show also has some advantages of its own. They've delivered perfectly on all the big moments of the series so far - Ned's death, the birth of the dragons, Blackwater... if they nail the RW, then I think we can be very confident that the show will be able to deliver the (presumably epic) climax to the series as well.

#18 ghost23

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 08:25 PM

I don't know why the writers/showrunners don't just wait until the source work is well and truly finished before starting to adapt it. I'm still scratching my head as to why the GOT showrunners decided it was a good idea to start adapting the show given that GRRM was still two (well, three at the time) books away from finishing the series, but it does tend to happen.


Because new books can be used to hype the show and the show can be used to hype the books. JK Rowling still had 3 books to go in Harry Potter when the first movie came out and both mediums helped sell each other (Albeit she has a much better track record in writing times than Martin.

As for a HBO ending, I would prefer a made up ending for most of the characters than for the show to end abruptly without any concrete resolution. Nothing worse than having a series end on somewhat of a cliffhanger such as Heroes ending with "to be continued..."

#19 Stafford1729

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 09:08 PM

I think I'd be fine with it.

From various details that have been changed, the inconsistency of maps, etc., we already must needs assume that the HBO show is a separate 'canon', if you like, from the novels.

Anyone ever read/watch Fullmetal Alchemist? The first anime adaptation caught up with the manga pretty quickly, and from there on in, the anime producers had free reign on the story, and they tied the whole thing up in a way that bears little resemblance to the plot of the manga.
Then, some years later, after the manga had sufficiently progressed, they made another anime series, this time sticking much closer to the plot of the manga.
I liked the manga's story, but in the end, I was exposed originally to the first series. And so it remains my favourite adaptation.

There will be scores of Game of Thrones fans whose sole experience with the story is through the TV shows. They may decide, after the series is done, to read the books, and may find themselves dissatisfied with the way that it ends, for the differences. And, of course, there's the novel purists who'll say just the opposite.

So, yeah, I'd be fine with an HBO original ending. I might even prefer it, given that I'll experience the end of the TV show, and the end of the novels at different times - it'd be nice if one didn't ruin the other, if you know what I mean.

#20 Cloaked

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 09:53 PM

I may have been coming at this thread the wrong way. To clarify -

I would be upset if the show reached the point of giving us an ending before the last book had been released.

I don't think theres any doubts about what the show would do. D&D are the only ones who know how ASOIAF is setup to end. They aren't going to make up their own ending! I mean, they will adapt it to suit the show of course, but I don't see them completely coming up with something on their own without GRRM's input.

I mean shit, thats the reason I'd be upset they had surpassed the books! - bc the ending would be major spoiler-ific (though it obviously could never offer the [hopefully] awesome satisfaction that will come with finishing ASOIAF & D+E and seeing what all ends up tying together)!