66 replies to this topic

[daimonionen]

None of the actors have signed on for 7 years or anything. I don't see them hanging on to all, or even most of the important actors beyond what they have signed up for. 5 years, was it? The show is so expensive, too - and will become even more so as the actors will demand more money later.

Plus D&D themselves might very well want to do other stuff down the line. The one year hiatus seems like a good way to slim down the cast. I don't see why people think that "theres always time" "time and money".

To keep the actors, budget not awfully high and own motivation, I think D&D will want to come to a satisfying conclution as quickly as possible. And George seems unable or unwilling to write anything close to fast. I'm still only about 50/50 to the possibility of him finishing the bookseries at all.

Edited by daimonionen, 26 November 2012 - 12:09 AM.

[Dragon greyscale]

The funny thing is that the ending is not the problem here. It's how to get there. D&D know the ending but they don't know how much time HBO wiil give them and what George will write, exactly, to get to the end.
Of the two uncertainties I think HBO is the biggest one. You don't suspend a show unless it's more profitable than anything in the history of television. I think they'll get 5, maybe 6, seasons. That means Dany and Jon should make their moves earlier, whatever they are.
Georg not finishing the book... Well that's a possibility but I'm sure he can tell most of the story details to an adequate writer. But that doesn't change the fact that the TV show will inevtiably catch up.

[Woman of War]

I loooove the books but I wished fans had a bit more respect for the show, since given the limits of its medium D&D are doing a wonderful job.

i do not believe that the show will end before the books are finished. But if it should I think the general storyline and ending would be respected.

[Bane]

It would make life on the internet a hell for me. Avoiding spoilers from the show while waiting for the last book.

Edited by Bane, 26 November 2012 - 04:27 AM.

[boojam]

Newstar, on 25 November 2012 - 04:50 PM, said:

I don't know why the writers/showrunners don't just wait until the source work is well and truly finished before starting to adapt it. I'm still scratching my head as to why the GOT showrunners decided it was a good idea to start adapting the show given that GRRM was still two (well, three at the time) books away from finishing the series, but it does tend to happen.

That's a question for HBO not D&D!

They took a chance and made some money ,.... money... well you know what it does.

[boojam]

Dragon greyscale, on 26 November 2012 - 01:32 AM, said:

The funny thing is that the ending is not the problem here. It's how to get there. D&D know the ending but they don't know how much time HBO wiil give them and what George will write, exactly, to get to the end.
Of the two uncertainties I think HBO is the biggest one. You don't suspend a show unless it's more profitable than anything in the history of television. I think they'll get 5, maybe 6, seasons. That means Dany and Jon should make their moves earlier, whatever they are.
Georg not finishing the book... Well that's a possibility but I'm sure he can tell most of the story details to an adequate writer. But that doesn't change the fact that the TV show will inevtiably catch up.

O ... not problem with HBO  as long as  cost to benifit is making them happy.

To me it's how GRRM is going to figure out the Hydra of plot arcs in the next two novels.

Maybe he could just have everybody run over by a truck

[brzibrzi]

Crown, on 25 November 2012 - 10:27 AM, said:

I don't think there's a possibility that the show will end before Martin released his last book. No way.

1. aGoT filmed in 2010, premiered 2011
2. aCoK filmed in 2011, premiered 2012
3. aSoS filmed in 2012, premiere 2013
4. aFfC filming in 2013, premiere 2014
5. aDwD filming in 2014, premiere 2015
6. tWoW filming in 2015, premiere 2016
7. aDoS filming in 2016, premiere 2017

this means that the last book has to be published in 2016, possibly in 2017 if the script is writen based on a nearly finished manuscript early in 2016. if aDoS is published in 2017 tWoW would have to be published in 2014. this is obviously a very optimistic stretch, considering the time it took to write the last two books and the difficulties of properly finishing all those storylines. there have been rumors that aSoS and aFfC would be stretched to three seasons but that would buy just one year.

my vote goes to option 2) GRRM tells the producers the ending and the story arcs (if he has already fleshed them out enough), the actual dialogs/scenes are written by the writers. it's messy but doable and it's acceptable for the fans.

[Javi Marcos]

The show is a huge success, Season 3 and 4 will be for sure better than Season 2 (because ASOS is the best book), so we'll reach 2015 in great conditions.

2015 will be an horrible year for the TV series, but in 2016 we'll have for sure 2 huge battles, Mereen and Winterfell. In 2016 we will see great TV, HBO won't suffer.

And there we are in 2017, full TWOW's season, including their ending. TWOW will be already published for sure (maybe 2014, with bad luck in 2015). No problems again if we trust in GRRM material.


The problem is 2018. iT'S ADOS time. Will the book be finished? Nobody knows. That's the one and only big question here.

I expect ADOS to be a great book, so we'll see a 20 episodes season (or 2 x10), released and filmed in 2 years. Maybe in March 2018, worst scenario, ADOS isn't over, but in March 2019 I'm pretty sure it will be. IF GRRM is alive and healthy, the book's ending will come before HBO's ending.

Edited by Javi Marcos, 26 November 2012 - 07:56 AM.

[Lannister Hamster]

Disappointed, not upset.

I'd like to see a GRRM written ending first and then compare it to HBO, than HBO write it and have it cloud my interpretation of the book's world.

[Frumpus]

It wouldn't bother me in the slightest. And besides they are probably already going to change the ending.

[Miryana]

I'd be glad to have an ending. It wouldn't have the details that the final books will have when/if they're published, but surely GRRM would be willing to give HBO a rough idea of where each character is meant to end up in the books. We'd be terribly lucky to get 7 seasons of this with the same actors and at least some of the enthusiasm that's present during the early seasons of a show. It wouldn't be all ASOIAF in the end, but it would be the complete package of GOT.

[Kosh Naranek]

Woman of War, on 26 November 2012 - 04:09 AM, said:

I loooove the books but I wished fans had a bit more respect for the show, since given the limits of its medium D&D are doing a wonderful job.

i do not believe that the show will end before the books are finished. But if it should I think the general storyline and ending would be respected.

I agree.  

t this rate I believe the show will out pace the books.

But, we have no reason to believe that the showrunners will deviate massively from what Martin intends.  He has told them how he envisions it ending.  Why would they just throw that out the window and wing it?

Edited by Kosh Naranek, 26 November 2012 - 01:41 PM.

[Bane]

boojam, on 26 November 2012 - 06:34 AM, said:

O ... not problem with HBO  as long as  cost to benifit is making them happy.

To me it's how GRRM is going to figure out the Hydra of plot arcs in the next two novels.

Maybe he could just have everybody run over by a truck

He has hinted at aliens a couple of times.

[Werthead]

Newstar, on 25 November 2012 - 04:50 PM, said:

I don't know why the writers/showrunners don't just wait until the source work is well and truly finished before starting to adapt it. I'm still scratching my head as to why the GOT showrunners decided it was a good idea to start adapting the show given that GRRM was still two (well, three at the time) books away from finishing the series, but it does tend to happen.

Benioff probably felt that if they didn't go for it then, someone else would have stepped in and nabbed the rights instead (and GRRM had already been fielding film offers, so a TV offer was probably going to happen eventually). Hell, Justin Cronin sold the film rights for The Passage Trilogy whilst he was still halfway through writing Book 1, because Ridley Scott's people saw some serious potential in it.

Quote

None of the actors have signed on for 7 years or anything. I don't see them hanging on to all, or even most of the important actors beyond what they have signed up for. 5 years, was it? The show is so expensive, too - and will become even more so as the actors will demand more money later.

Plus D&D themselves might very well want to do other stuff down the line. The one year hiatus seems like a good way to slim down the cast. I don't see why people think that "theres always time" "time and money".

The  'one year hiatus' plan killed Deadwood. By the time it was time to get the gang back together again for the final season, half the actors had moved on to other projects because HBO could not afford to put them on retainer. So no, this will absolutely not happen.

The contractual situation is this: Benioff and Weiss appear to have 2-year contracts. They renewed after Season 2 and will likely have to renew after Seasons 4 and 6. They have said they envisage the series going for 8 seasons.

The show itself and the major actors are contracted for 6 seasons. After Season 6 they will have to renegotiate, which could kill the show off if they are not careful. However, the show is also lucky in that whilst the whole thing films over six months, actors are often needed only for short bursts (allegedly Charles Dance filmed all of his Season 2 material in a fortnight). This isn't like Friends where the actors are needed on set every week for six months straight (so you end up paying them $1 million a year each by the end of the series to desperately try to hold onto them), they have the ability to go off and do other projects and then come back to Thrones when and as needed.

[Mr Fixit]

Werthead, on 26 November 2012 - 06:36 PM, said:

This isn't like Friends where the actors are needed on set every week for six months straight (so you end up paying them $1 million a year each by the end of the series to desperately try to hold onto them), they have the ability to go off and do other projects and then come back to Thrones when and as needed.

Just a little correction. Friends actors were payed $1 million each per episode by Seasons 9 and 10.

Crazy, I know.

[The Dragon has three heads]

brzibrzi, on 26 November 2012 - 07:42 AM, said:

1. aGoT filmed in 2010, premiered 2011
2. aCoK filmed in 2011, premiered 2012
3. aSoS filmed in 2012, premiere 2013
4. aFfC filming in 2013, premiere 2014
5. aDwD filming in 2014, premiere 2015
6. tWoW filming in 2015, premiere 2016
7. aDoS filming in 2016, premiere 2017

this means that the last book has to be published in 2016, possibly in 2017 if the script is writen based on a nearly finished manuscript early in 2016. if aDoS is published in 2017 tWoW would have to be published in 2014. this is obviously a very optimistic stretch, considering the time it took to write the last two books and the difficulties of properly finishing all those storylines. there have been rumors that aSoS and aFfC would be stretched to three seasons but that would buy just one year.

my vote goes to option 2) GRRM tells the producers the ending and the story arcs (if he has already fleshed them out enough), the actual dialogs/scenes are written by the writers. it's messy but doable and it's acceptable for the fans.

Way too over simplified.
The end of SOS and AFFC bleed into each other and then AFFC and DWD bleed into one another.
So 2013 Is part one SOS
2014 is SOS part two and the beginnings of AFFC and perhaps some very early DWD
2015 is AFFC/DWD which MAY take two seasons but more likely just one.
So ADOS has to be published by no later than 2015 and hopefully can shoot the same year as I can imagine the need of D and D getting finished pages early to adapt so the screen play is ready aroun the same time the book hits shelves.
Either way. He's under the gun.

[brzibrzi]

The Dragon has three heads, on 27 November 2012 - 12:14 AM, said:

Way too over simplified.
The end of SOS and AFFC bleed into each other and then AFFC and DWD bleed into one another.
So 2013 Is part one SOS
2014 is SOS part two and the beginnings of AFFC and perhaps some very early DWD
2015 is AFFC/DWD which MAY take two seasons but more likely just one.
So ADOS has to be published by no later than 2015 and hopefully can shoot the same year as I can imagine the need of D and D getting finished pages early to adapt so the screen play is ready aroun the same time the book hits shelves.
Either way. He's under the gun.

i hope you're right but it sounds like wishful thinking. i'm just not very optimistic about GRRM finishing the books anytime soon. he seems to be busy doing many other things and if HBO hurries him to finish the books he might get sloppy. i also think he doesn't like to be hurried because he doesn't want to get sloppy, he wants to finish the books in his own time the way he wants to.

[boojam]

Werthead, on 26 November 2012 - 06:36 PM, said:

The  'one year hiatus' plan killed Deadwood. By the time it was time to get the gang back together again for the final season, half the actors had moved on to other projects because HBO could not afford to put them on retainer. So no, this will absolutely not happen.

The contractual situation is this: Benioff and Weiss appear to have 2-year contracts. They renewed after Season 2 and will likely have to renew after Seasons 4 and 6. They have said they envisage the series going for 8 seasons.

The show itself and the major actors are contracted for 6 seasons. After Season 6 they will have to renegotiate, which could kill the show off if they are not careful. However, the show is also lucky in that whilst the whole thing films over six months, actors are often needed only for short bursts (allegedly Charles Dance filmed all of his Season 2 material in a fortnight). This isn't like Friends where the actors are needed on set every week for six months straight (so you end up paying them $1 million a year each by the end of the series to desperately try to hold onto them), they have the ability to go off and do other projects and then come back to Thrones when and as needed.

What do you mean by "one year hiatus' plan killed Deadwood"?
It was HBO that declined to produce a 4th full season of Deadwood, and I think because season 3 did not have a good cost to benifit ratio.
Two things to say about that the story (based on a fair approximation of a true story) really had come to and end with the arrival of Hearst and then with the involvement of the US goverment the Deadwood story was dead!
Series creator David Milch said he had enough material for two HBO movies to finish it off, but I don't think he really had enough material to do that.
Milch by season 3 of Deadwood had really moved on to his next series John from Cincinnati (which flopped). I get the impression Milch was finished with Deadwood in 2006.
(Of course HBO ran into the anonomly that both ROME and DEADWOOD did well as DVD release , I hope they learned something from that.)

As far as actor's contracts go, that is a mystery. I can see the beginers signing for 6 years , but the veterans , I have to wonder. Tho for many of the actors , even major ones, don't have to be 'on set' during full shoot and could have other work. In fact we know this goes on especially actors who do stage work.

Edited by boojam, 27 November 2012 - 04:24 AM.

[The Dragon has three heads]

brzibrzi, on 27 November 2012 - 02:51 AM, said:

i hope you're right but it sounds like wishful thinking. i'm just not very optimistic about GRRM finishing the books anytime soon. he seems to be busy doing many other things and if HBO hurries him to finish the books he might get sloppy. i also think he doesn't like to be hurried because he doesn't want to get sloppy, he wants to finish the books in his own time the way he wants to.

Thing is though, his whole career pretty much rests on how well the show and books go.
He knows that.
He had put himself on a time limit with the show now airing, *hopefully* this is positive.

Edited by The Dragon has three heads, 28 November 2012 - 12:22 AM.

[The Anti-Targ]

Actually I think GRRM would demand a substantially different ending from what he's planning. How much af an anticlimax would it be for the reader to read about what the've already seen on the screen.

As long as the TV series ending is satisfactory for the TV series then divergance is good IF the TV series gets ahead of the books. But I'm hoping it won't come to that.