anyone ever frustrated by Lyanna's character?

[Florina Laufeyson]

I hardly think she "got away with it" considering that she freaking died.

[DaeneryStormBorn]

I hardly think she "got away with it" considering that she freaking died.

Thats why I said "thinking she get away with it"

Btw I really like your Avatar, It makes me smile everytime I see it.

[Fire Eater]

Lyanna was Arya's prototype, and I think Rickard wasn't the father Ned was, he was more strict and discouraged Lyanna's tomboy habits to make her into a proper highborn lady. Choosing to go off with Rhaegar was probably the only choice she ever got to make about her life.

Lyanna didn't want to marry Robert, as she was right about his philandering ways. For the women here, if you were Lyanna with no knowledge of what would happen in the future if you went off with Rhaegar, would you either respect your father's marriage contract and marry Robert or go off with Rhaegar when he came to you?

I know people talk about Lyanna and Rhaegar's tale to be cliche without realizing it's one of the many subversions of tropes by GRRM. This was a subversion of the trope of the strong girl refusing her father's choice for a husband, and choosing her own husband. The results aren't what one would call a happy ending as the romance lasts only a year with both Lyanna and Rhaegar dying not soon after.

[Florina Laufeyson]

For the women here, if you were Lyanna with no knowledge of what would happen in the future if you went off with Rhaegar, would you either respect your father's marriage contract and marry Robert or go off with Rhaegar when he came to you?

Because im something of a firebrand myself, i would choose the latter. :B Lyanna felt that Robert was probably something of a scum because he just kept sleeping around. I dont think its unfair of her to not dig that. Some people cry hypocrisy due to Rhaegar leaving Elia for Lyanna, but i dunno. Im gonna withhold judgment on that until we know the full story.

[Myrish Swamp Thing]

So, in protest against Robert's philandering ways, Lyanna runs off with a married guy? Hmmmm.....

[jons nissa]

..... and Arya wants to end the patriarchy.

this seems quite a leap based on her behavior so far. what makes you think this? that she told ned she didn't want to get married? i'm curious.

we know very, very little about lyanna. all we know is that she was a free spirit and had enough talent to win a tourney. hardly the behavior of a noble born girl of her time so she definitely did not do what was expected of her. she also seems to be insightful enough to realize that robert was a cheater and that she didn't want that for herself. anything else that i've missed? i don't see many threads on lyanna so i'm no expert.

as for rhaegar, we don't know if she left willingly or not so it's hard to say she went after what she wanted out of life, selfishly. i think not really knowing what to make of her is more frustrating than assuming she did something.

we can only assume that since ned isn't bitter or angry when he thinks of her, that he thinks she was happy and he seems to be ok with her decision. but as we know from grrm, that might be a completely wrong read of the situation.

[Lady of Dragonstone]

I have no love for Lyanna, she did what she wants without thinking of anything else, She just want to be happy and off she go, be happy. She is being put out as one of those fierce, warrior, great horse rider and so on with no brain at the end. Just a woman character that will have baby and die. Nothing else.

Maybe you haven't been in the same situation as Lyanna, but I have. She didn't just have a baby and go die. That is probably the most harsh thing I have EVER read on these forums. I firmly don't believe that Lyanna was kidnapped. She was traveling at the time and was probably well-guarded -- the only daughter of the King in the North.......come on, people. She stood up for what she wanted, she saw what Robert was and what he would be, and she refused to go along with the social conventions and marry someone who would have treated her like shit. She wanted to be happy, and maybe she did pay the price, but I am guessing she thought those few months of happiness were worth it versus ending up like Cersei. She was a bright, spirited young woman, and I think this is what Ned means by comparing Arya to Lyanna --- they would rather be their own person than live a lie. Standing up for your rights as an invididual is absolutely incomparable to saying she has no brain.

So, in protest against Robert's philandering ways, Lyanna runs off with a married guy? Hmmmm.....

Rhaegar wasn't happily married. He wasn't a fighter unless he had to be, he is portrayed as pretty much the ultimate romantic guy. He didn't choose to be married to Elia, it was arranged, and we know from the text she was sickly and they spent most of their time apart. I am guessing that this was a marriage of convenience... it suited their families, and gave Aerys II the heirs he desperately wanted. I think every father feels affection towards the mother of his children, but I highly doubt Rhaegar and Elia were in love romantically. Yes, it was wrong of him to cheat on and leave his spouse, but I am sure he had his reasons, AND I don't remember reading a single thing in any book saying how heartbroken or angry Elia was about this.

I think it is very sad that some readers judge Rhaegar and Lyanna so harshly for their actions.

[The Meeraculous Third Reed]

Maybe you haven't been in the same situation as Lyanna, but I have. She didn't just have a baby and go die. That is probably the most harsh thing I have EVER read on these forums. I firmly don't believe that Lyanna was kidnapped. She was traveling at the time and was probably well-guarded -- the only daughter of the King in the North.......come on, people. She stood up for what she wanted, she saw what Robert was and what he would be, and she refused to go along with the social conventions and marry someone who would have treated her like shit. She wanted to be happy, and maybe she did pay the price, but I am guessing she thought those few months of happiness were worth it versus ending up like Cersei. She was a bright, spirited young woman, and I think this is what Ned means by comparing Arya to Lyanna --- they would rather be their own person than live a lie. Standing up for your rights as an invididual is absolutely incomparable to saying she has no brain.

Rhaegar wasn't happily married. He wasn't a fighter unless he had to be, he is portrayed as pretty much the ultimate romantic guy. He didn't choose to be married to Elia, it was arranged, and we know from the text she was sickly and they spent most of their time apart. I am guessing that this was a marriage of convenience... it suited their families, and gave Aerys II the heirs he desperately wanted. I think every father feels affection towards the mother of his children, but I highly doubt Rhaegar and Elia were in love romantically. Yes, it was wrong of him to cheat on and leave his spouse, but I am sure he had his reasons, AND I don't remember reading a single thing in any book saying how heartbroken or angry Elia was about this.

I think it is very sad that some readers judge Rhaegar and Lyanna so harshly for their actions.

That clears that one up then.

[Éadaoin]

I suppose Lyanna never interested me too much overall, but I agree that she is like a mix of Arya and Sansa.

[Kuther2000]

Maybe you haven't been in the same situation as Lyanna, but I have. She didn't just have a baby and go die. That is probably the most harsh thing I have EVER read on these forums. I firmly don't believe that Lyanna was kidnapped. She was traveling at the time and was probably well-guarded -- the only daughter of the King in the North.......come on, people. She stood up for what she wanted, she saw what Robert was and what he would be, and she refused to go along with the social conventions and marry someone who would have treated her like shit. She wanted to be happy, and maybe she did pay the price, but I am guessing she thought those few months of happiness were worth it versus ending up like Cersei. She was a bright, spirited young woman, and I think this is what Ned means by comparing Arya to Lyanna --- they would rather be their own person than live a lie. Standing up for your rights as an invididual is absolutely incomparable to saying she has no brain.

Rhaegar wasn't happily married. He wasn't a fighter unless he had to be, he is portrayed as pretty much the ultimate romantic guy. He didn't choose to be married to Elia, it was arranged, and we know from the text she was sickly and they spent most of their time apart. I am guessing that this was a marriage of convenience... it suited their families, and gave Aerys II the heirs he desperately wanted. I think every father feels affection towards the mother of his children, but I highly doubt Rhaegar and Elia were in love romantically. Yes, it was wrong of him to cheat on and leave his spouse, but I am sure he had his reasons, AND I don't remember reading a single thing in any book saying how heartbroken or angry Elia was about this.

I think it is very sad that some readers judge Rhaegar and Lyanna so harshly for their actions.

No one judges them too harshly the majority of the posts that I have seen on the forum have been in support of them following their true love. It is only some people who see the destruction that it caused and think its not right. You have been in Lyanna's situation. I would really like to hear it. Do you live in a world were you can be given to another man and you can't really do anything about it but accept? Do you also live in a world where what you do affects the lives of millions of people because they do.

If you have a person in a leadership role, one accepts to act accordingly to their station, which means accepting their duties to some people. Other characters get blasted and hated for their perceived mistakes so why not Rhaegar and Lyanna.

This post isn't about Rhaegar and Lyanna's love. Its about her characterization as a fierce warrior woman when she seems more of a woman child and the fact that in the end her only characterization will be as Jon's mother (maybe).

[redviper9]

Given what we know about Lyanna, I tend to agree with the posters above who say she may have been a mix of Sansa and Arya. I would guess at least two-thirds Arya, since I can't recall anyone ever telling Sansa that she reminded them of Lyanna. But if she did really love Rhaegar, that does show a sense of romance.

I actually have the same attitude towards both Rhaegar and Lyanna: namely, there's still too much about both of them that's unknown for me to form a solid opinion. I lean towards liking them because if you discount the extreme views certain ASoIaF characters have of them -- Robert's intense hatred of Rhaegar and his idealization of Lyanna; JonCon putting Rhaegar on a pedestal -- they appear to have been quite exceptional individuals. But I still want to know what the exact circumstances behind Lyanna's disappearance and subsequent death were.

[straits]

I don't like that Lyanna's flaws were only reflected (to us, the readers) in the consequences of her actions rather than the seemingly noble actions themselves. Her existence makes me pity Elia very much.

Lyanna's plight, her desire to be loved/in love/with a loved one/independent/equal derp/feels etc pales in comparison to the shitstorm she and Rheezy Targaryen caused. Nicer characters died worse deaths with no hope of any happiness. Wouldn't have been a big deal if she just sat down and obeyed the norm. It's not like she opened up a precedent for rights of women in Westeros. What she did, she did for herself.

The peasants always pay :crying:

[Lady of Dragonstone]

No one judges them too harshly the majority of the posts that I have seen on the forum have been in support of them following their true love.^a It is only some people who see the destruction that it caused and think its not right. You have been in Lyanna's situation. I would really like to hear it. Do you live in a world were you can be given to another man and you can't really do anything about it but accept? Do you also live in a world where what you do affects the lives of millions of people because they do.^b

If you have a person in a leadership role, one accepts to act accordingly to their station, which means accepting their duties to some people. Other characters get blasted and hated for their perceived mistakes so why not Rhaegar and Lyanna.^c

This post isn't about Rhaegar and Lyanna's love. Its about her characterization as a fierce warrior woman when she seems more of a woman child and the fact that in the end her only characterization will be as Jon's mother (maybe).

A) True

B) I don't feel the need to tell my situation, but yes, I have been shunned by my entire family and all my friends for deciding to be with someone other than the person I was formerly engaged to, whom my parents "chose" for me. Is that an easy decision to make? No. Would I have been miserable if I hadn't made it? Yes. Is this selfish of me? Probably. So I am a bit irked by the post I quoted before. Sorry if this offends anyone, I guess all people react differently in situations, but I empathize with this hypothetical situation R+L=J.

C) Also true, but I wasn't really defending Rhaegar, just Lyanna. I'm sorry if it came across that way -- like I said, I understand that Rhaegar's actions were wrong.

Also, if that's her only characterization , maybe this whole thread is moot. ;) At any rate, she is one of my favorite female characters, and I think there's a lot more to her story. I'm not sure if we will ever get to hear it, but I certainly hope we do.

[UnbentFury]

Basically, if Lyanna was kidnapped and raped that's pretty sad.

But if she and Rhaegar consensually ran away together and started all this mess then fuck the both of them.

[Samsaptakas]

Did Lyanna knew of the Azor ahai Prophecy?

[RoamingRonin]

She's one character and part of one huge mystery I wish the series just never included. Gah. "Promise me, Ned... Promise me you'll retcon this..."

[Snowborn]

So, in protest against Robert's philandering ways, Lyanna runs off with a married guy? Hmmmm.....

It makes a lot of sense, doesn't it? :lol:

Don't you think she will think about it, and not just run off, no what she did is just run off without thinking of others, she did it because she is willful, because she's a spoiled brat. She gets away with anything so she did this thinking she gets away with it too.

I liked this description. This was the impression I got from her.

[Florina Laufeyson]

Given what we know about Lyanna, I tend to agree with the posters above who say she may have been a mix of Sansa and Arya. I would guess at least two-thirds Arya, since I can't recall anyone ever telling Sansa that she reminded them of Lyanna. But if she did really love Rhaegar, that does show a sense of romance.

I actually have the same attitude towards both Rhaegar and Lyanna: namely, there's still too much about both of them that's unknown for me to form a solid opinion. I lean towards liking them because if you discount the extreme views certain ASoIaF characters have of them -- Robert's intense hatred of Rhaegar and his idealization of Lyanna; JonCon putting Rhaegar on a pedestal -- they appear to have been quite exceptional individuals. But I still want to know what the exact circumstances behind Lyanna's disappearance and subsequent death were.

Other than a couple of people like Robert, Jorah, and Jon Connington, most people seem to be rather ambivalent to Rhaegar. Ned doesnt put the guy on a pedestal as much as hes just like "yeah...Rhaegar was a thing once and he didnt seem like a jackass..." Selmy doesnt seem to elevate Rhaegar that much either. Cersei thought he was smoking hot but beyond that, she doesnt really know him so she cant say.

[Fire Eater]

Did Lyanna knew of the Azor ahai Prophecy?

I don't think she did, and if she did she learned it from Rhaegar, it's not exactly a good pick-up line:"Hey, wanna fulfill the PtwP prophecy with me?"

[Anwar]

Honestly, this whole idea that Lyanna went with Rhaegar because of some prophecy is pretty silly. I mean, most intelligent people would probably think "So, you're a married man and a father but you want to run off with me because some prophecy says you need a 3rd kid? Uh...I'm going to step out for a minute..." *Runs like Hell away from Nutbag Rhaegar*.