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Dawn is the blade AA forged to end the long night.


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#1 theLongKnight

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 02:26 AM

It just "dawned" on me. I was reading a thread about the Darkstar and I got to thinking. Its said to be a super sword kinda right? Really I think it because "dawn" ends the night so the sword dawn ended the long night. Any thoughts?

#2 Fire Eater

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 02:38 AM

That's a common theory.

I don't think Lightbringer is Dawn. I don't even know if it's a sword or not.

Edited by Fire Eater, 28 November 2012 - 02:39 AM.


#3 Head of The Ned

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 02:49 AM

I'm gonna go ahead and assume that Howland Reed has the sword known as Dawn. I don't have any evidence for this whatsoever but it's just a suspicion.

#4 Black Wolf Smith

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 04:23 AM

I'm gonna go ahead and assume that Howland Reed has the sword known as Dawn. I don't have any evidence for this whatsoever but it's just a suspicion.

GRRM has said that Dawn is at Starfell. sorry.

To the OP. While I am not sure that Lightbringer is the NW or anything like that, I do not believe that Dawn is LB or if it is, it won't matter. It is too easy of an answer. If LB is a sword, I don't believe that AAR needs the same sword to do what it is destine to do.

Edited by Black Wolf Smith, 28 November 2012 - 04:24 AM.


#5 The Dragon has three heads

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 04:57 AM

It is obvious and that's why it's generally discarded. However I think the "sword of the morning" is the most important thing here. The title, not the blade.
It's seems ridiculous that LB could make its way to a southern house if AA( if that even is his true name, and I doubt it is-or was) why was it not interred in his crypt(still possible)? Why was it not given to the NW as the most potent weapon for their sole purpose? Records of it at may be CB, but, without Sam who to find them?
It just seems too nice a fit, someone of the blood holds the sword, or kills someone with it and BAM super weapon, GRRM is not that obvious...even though it would be cool haha




#6 Black Wolf Smith

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 06:02 AM

It is obvious and that's why it's generally discarded. However I think the "sword of the morning" is the most important thing here. The title, not the blade.
It's seems ridiculous that LB could make its way to a southern house1 if AA( if that even is his true name, and I doubt it is-or was) why was it not interred in his crypt(still possible)? Why was it not given to the NW as the most potent weapon for their sole purpose2? Records of it at may be CB, but, without Sam who to find them? It just seems too nice a fit, someone of the blood holds the sword3, or kills someone with it and BAM super weapon, GRRM is not that obvious...even though it would be cool haha

1. well a southern based house, Daynes are FM. Not a johnny come lately house.
2. Not even getting in to the heresy I would love to about that, The long night ended, and the WW/Others had not been seen in a 1,000 years. Why would they give away there biggest claim to fame.
3. Dawn was giving to the best swordsman of a genration, not just that of their Heir, like other houses. It could be well that at one time that included members of other houses. We just don't know enough at this point.

#7 The Drunkard

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 06:19 AM

I think the NW or dragons or something alone those lines makes more sense than a single sword. I mean, Dawn is just a really sharp sword. It hasn't displayed any magical qualities, so unless you believe it's just got some hidden powers that come alive when fighting Others, I don't know why you'd think it would be.

#8 armidil0

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 10:18 AM

I think it is the original LB, but that there will be a new one, or a more figurative one this time around. Or a combination of sword/group of people.

#9 DaeneryStormBorn

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 10:24 AM

I think it is the original LB, but that there will be a new one, or a more figurative one this time around. Or a combination of sword/group of people.


Why would there be a new one, if its still solid and not broken. I want dawn to be LB but i also subscribe to the nightwatch being LB.

#10 Black Wolf Smith

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 11:23 AM

Why would there be a new one, if its still solid and not broken. I want dawn to be LB but i also subscribe to the nightwatch being LB.

That is an easy one. The theory is that AAR would have to make his own sacrifice for the sword he uses to work. So in short it could be viewed that Q Halfhand's sacrifice forged Longclaw as a new LB.

Not that I think this story is headed any where near that line.

#11 hotweaselsoup

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 12:09 PM

It is obvious and that's why it's generally discarded. However I think the "sword of the morning" is the most important thing here. The title, not the blade.
It's seems ridiculous that LB could make its way to a southern house if AA( if that even is his true name, and I doubt it is-or was) why was it not interred in his crypt(still possible)? Why was it not given to the NW as the most potent weapon for their sole purpose? Records of it at may be CB, but, without Sam who to find them?
It just seems too nice a fit, someone of the blood holds the sword, or kills someone with it and BAM super weapon, GRRM is not that obvious...even though it would be cool haha


Re "The Sword of the Morning" - Jon is looking at the stars in one of his chapters, and the "Sword of the Morning" is mentioned as a constellation. I can't help but think of our own RL Morning Star. From Wikipedia:

Morning star is the name given to the planet Venus when it appears in the east before sunrise (as though heralding the coming of the morning). "Phosphorus" or "Light-Bringer" (Greek Φωσφόρος Phōsphoros) is the ancient Greek mythological name for the planet. It is also named Ἑωσφόρος, Heosphoros, "Dawn-bringer".


But what is most interesting to me is that Venus is also known as the Evening Star, because the planet reaches its maximum brightness both shortly before dawn and shortly after sunset. Brienne, the Maid of Tarth is the daughter of the Evenstar - aka the Evening Star.

I don't know if it means anything, but I thought it was intriguing /smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

#12 The Dragon has three heads

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 08:09 PM

Well wasn't Briennes father called the Evenstar?

This goes back to some crackpot theories I had about celestial cycles being the part of the reason for the return of the others/dragons/AAR/comet etc
Anyway, Re the Daynes, is it known when their valyrian traits appeared? Didnthey marry targs? I cant recall.
Could it be they escape the doom far before Aegons family?
It would be interesting if the Daynes Were the actual house of AA not the targs...


#13 brut

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 12:00 PM

Dawn could well be the original Lightbringer, but we seem to be getting to the point where the new LB is introduced. Similar to the way Mel is "creating" the LB for Stan. Note, she does not seek the legendary sword and present it to Stan, but rather creates the new one. So, if this analogy is of any indication, the true LB might actually be reforged.

#14 Ser Haywood Stark

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 06:55 AM

Has anyone ever thought that the lost sword of House Lanister might be the actual lightbringer ... just a thought

#15 Know Face Man

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 03:27 PM

Has anyone ever thought that the lost sword of House Lanister might be the actual lightbringer ... just a thought


My theory is that all Valyrian Steel swords are a recreation of Lightbringer. But that Dawn is the original Lightbringer.

#16 Black Wolf Smith

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 01:15 AM

Has anyone ever thought that the lost sword of House Lanister might be the actual lightbringer ... just a thought

My theory is that all Valyrian Steel swords are a recreation of Lightbringer. But that Dawn is the original Lightbringer.

/bang.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':bang:' />

#17 borwin

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 05:34 AM

Doubt it, there is nothing in the series to tie Dawn to Lightbringer besides both of them having similar names.

Now if I were a betting man, I would bet that the actual Lightbringer could be hidden in the crypts of Winterfell, and that Jon will find it after he is resurrected.

#18 Cold Pie

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 08:25 AM

My theory is that all Valyrian Steel swords are a recreation of Lightbringer.

Recreation? Why?

#19 Nick Baratheon

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 09:02 AM

don´t the nightswatch vows say something like: " .......I´m the sword in the darkness ....." ?
1)In the legend ,I think, AA´s lightbringer breaks 2 times, and then some stuff happens...
2) The nightswatch too " broke" two times. first time, when Mormont gets stabbed by brothers, second time when jon gets stabbed by brothers...

-> so there clearly are some hints that point to nightswatch= lightbringer

Or it´s just Longclaw or Oathbreaker or some other valyrian swordy

#20 Wagshell

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 09:17 AM

But what is most interesting to me is that Venus is also known as the Evening Star, because the planet reaches its maximum brightness both shortly before dawn and shortly after sunset.


Or a "dark-star" if you will.