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Reason I dislike Catelyn (spoilers ahead)


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#1 Ser Troye of the Sands

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 05:08 AM

I noticed through a lot of the topics on here, Catelyn is an extremely polarizing character. I can see the points a lot of people are making, but I cannot really defend the woman at all. Just about everything that happens following A Game of Thrones is her fault.
  • She felt it important to go all the way to King's Landing to speak to Ned about the attempt on Bran's Life.
  • She seized Tyrion which really set everything in motion. It caused Jaime to attack Ned, after which there was no turning back for the Lannisters nor the Starks.
However, the thing that annoyed me the most about her was how she WAS/IS the reason the war started, yet she was pleading for peace. She kept whining about losing her family (husband, sons, and possibly daughters), yet she never took full responsibility. Yes, there were times where she said how stupid she was for this and that, but she never flat admitted it, and shut the hell up.

#2 Katu

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 06:40 PM

I hated her since she freed Kingslayer. One of the most important character was send back to game, just because she saw a possibility to see her girls again

#3 Horza

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 06:55 PM

Catelyn triggered Lannister vs Stark-Tully, but that didn't become an all out war until Joffrey had Ned killed. But even to get it to that stage you had to have Ned fail to form an alliance with Renly or Littlefinger, a much more important turning point than Catelyn kidnapping Tyrion.

Similarly, while releasing Jaime when she did was a desperate and hopeless measure, exchanging him for Sansa is what Robb should have done when she proposed it to him. Jaime is not that great a military asset and Robb himself belatedly realised how important his sisters were in the struggle when Tyrion married Sansa, giving the Lannisters a claim to Winterfell.

I don't think Cat is innocent of making bad decisions but I don't see a reason to single her out when so many others make huge blunders, and that's just the Starks.

#4 KhaleesiDany

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 07:09 PM

She kept whining about losing her family (husband, sons, and possibly daughters), yet she never took full responsibility. Yes, there were times where she said how stupid she was for this and that, but she never flat admitted it, and shut the hell up.



I think this is the key flaw in her character. But she is a very realistic, very well written character in being that she is a Medieval ages Lady. She has very little agency and power to do anything. When the responsibility finally hits her, she makes a lot of bad decisions because she makes assumptions about the outside world like that people will be honest and will view her actions as defensive instead of hostile. She trusts other people and that is why she lets the Kingslayer go and believes Lysa, she thinks she knows how to play the game and that is why she takes Tyrion hostage. She could have taken him hostage but treated him gently instead of humiliating him, and the Lannister's reaction would not have been so fierce.

What you said about whining and not taking responsibility struck a chord with me as being true. I hate that Cat left Bran and Rickon in Winterfell. She's done a lot of crazy things, but from my perception that was the craziest. She didn't realize they were on the brink of war but she did know that someone was trying to kill her son, so why did she march out to find whoever had done it? It makes no sense to me. She basically left Winterfell undefended so that she could go on a special mission for a war that hadn't started yet. And honestly, what did Cat think she knew about investigating attempted murder? Nothing. Versus what she knows about keeping her family and land intact--a lot. She has been at Winterfell since she left Riverrun. She should have sent someone out to find Bran's killer instead of leaving someone behind to do her job.

I think it's a real tragedy that Cat (ah, I cringe to say this) left her place and messed up so much stuff so badly. She should have stuck to what she knew how to do. (And I think she never took responsibility, because she has a real problem admitting that she is wrong.) All of her actions make sense in context but they are mind-numbingly frustrating.

#5 Ser Troye of the Sands

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 09:27 PM

I agree with a lot of what was said, but one thing I definitely disagree with is the hatred for releasing Jaime. That is not something I could fault her for because ANY parent would do the same, except for maybe cold hearted bastards.

Yes, the War didn't really begin until the beheading, but she is still to blame for that (actually, Lysa and Littlefinger are, but that's a different point). Cat insisted Ned take the position of Hand. Also, the bannermen would not have been called for if not for her action of taking Tyrion. When Tyrion is taken captive, it pisses of the Lannisters who rally.

#6 Angalin

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 12:22 AM

<mod>
Hate threads are overrated and overdone. Closing this one now. A thread for discussing characters you do like is here.
</mod>