403 replies to this topic

[awesome possum]

continued from the previous thread.


I finished A Crown of Swords last night (well, not completely, I still have some of the last chapter and epilogue to go) and it was much much better than I remember.  The way that LoC seemed disappointing and dragged, this one felt the complete opposite (and I finished it in a week as opposed the month LoC took me).  Okay, the Egwene parts really dragged.  She has quickly become my least favorite character upon reread, not because of her character but because her chapters are so boring.  I'm sure Elayne and Faile will rise to compete with her in the next few books, but as of right now I groan inwardly whenever I see it's a chapter about her.  Partially because I know she's going to be in pretty much the same spot for the next several books.

Rand infiltrating Darlin's camp and Fain's fog-monster attack (I forget the name of it right now) was almost like reading it anew as it has been so long since I read those pages.  I almost completely forgot about those events.

I did not enjoy or find particularly funny Mat getting raped by Tylin, as that was much more odious this time around.  And maybe it's because I knew he was toast but I found Nalesean much more compelling the first time I read the series and his loss felt like a genuine loss.  This time around it was just sort of "meh."  I did really enjoy the scene with the gholam and Mat's badassery with, "You can't bloody have her" while swinging the medallion at it.

That said, this is the book I've enjoyed most on my reread so far.  I think it's partially because I've never reread any of the books after LoC and partially because I know the next books are sitting right there ready to be picked up.  One of the major reasons I disliked ACoS was the Mat cliffhanger and knowing I'd have to wait 2 years to find out what happened, only to discover I'd have to wait two more years because NO MAT IN POD!

I'm hoping I can enjoy the other "slow" books as much as this one.  Maybe knowing there is another one to pick up right after instead of waiting for years will help improve the flow which will no doubt help improve the quality in my mind at least.

And now some comments from the previous thread discussion:

fionwe:

Quote

Any number of things we can be sure will involved in the Last Battle are outside Rand's abilities, tel'aran'rhiod being the most important of these.

That's not necessarily true.  He can access tel'aran'rhiod, just not through his dreams.

Brendan Moody:

Quote

I'd like to believe that Jordan was capable of constructing something as epic as the Last Battle in such a way that the contributions of various armies and of individuals other than Rand feel truly relevant and necessary

I dunno, I think it would be rather easy to make their contributions important.  After all, a massive horde of Trollocs is already making their way down into the Borderlands.  Caemlyn has been destroyed and those Trollocs are also likely on their way to cause more destruction.

The armies are going to be needed in order to assure there is something left after the Last Battle.

[Poobah]

Skimmed the last few pages of the old thread:

Book length and structure - currently I think that this could have been done in 2 books, but I'll hold off judgement until I see how much there is in AMoL. Either way even with three books they certainly could have been structured better; the pacing across TGS and ToM is horrendous. We might have seen the books later, but if all the chapters across those two books had all been written before either was published they could have been arranged in a much much better order to produce two books of far, far superior quality. Maybe that's a project for some hardcore WoT fan after AMoL is done - rearrange the chapters in the final trilogy in an order that doesn't scream structural clusterfuck.

Sexism: yes, lots and swinging both ways (see also handling of Mat being raped by Tylin eg. being straight up played for laughs with absolutely no awareness on any level of how bad that is).

Rand doesn't need Egwene. I wouldn't have shed a tear if dark-rand had told her and her stuck up bunch of morons to fuck off and then balefired the lot of them. Either way he has Nynaeve (who also should have murdered Egwene and the other AS after they 'tested' her) and Alivia. He doesn't exactly need any other Saidar wielders when he's got those two. I dunno why he even bothers to give the white tower the time of day - they have no choice but to fight in the last battle or die, and even with his new zen mode inspiring all this tolerance or morons in him he's not exactly going to trust any 'official' AS other than Nynaeve, Moiraine and possibly from Cads to come within knife-sticking range of his back. The Forsaken may have been a bunch of idiots but they were right in their opinion that the AS of the third age are a bunch of petty children.

I do think he needs Mat and Perrin though. Their ta'veren-ness is what seems to heal the pattern.

[Myrddin]

awesome possum, on 29 November 2012 - 09:41 AM, said:

One of the major reasons I disliked ACoS was the Mat cliffhanger and knowing I'd have to wait 2 years to find out what happened, only to discover I'd have to wait two more years because NO MAT IN POD!

For which, I blame Pod.

[fionwe1987]

awesome possum, on 29 November 2012 - 09:41 AM, said:

fionwe:
That's not necessarily true.  He can access tel'aran'rhiod, just not through his dreams.

Yes, he can access it in the flesh, a particularly dangerous way to do so. From wolves to Wise Ones, we know its a major no-no.

But access isn't the issue here. Its ability. Rand simply can't do the things Egwene and Perrin can do there. He lacks the innate skill, and he lacks the practice. Which is why, in his PoV in ToM, he says its a dangerous place for him to visit.

[Rhom]

Trying to remember... what is it exactly that makes TAR so dangerous to visit in the flesh?

[Poobah]

Rhom, on 29 November 2012 - 04:52 PM, said:

Trying to remember... what is it exactly that makes TAR so dangerous to visit in the flesh?

'cause when you do you get harassed by a load of people about how dangerous it is.

[fionwe1987]

Rhom, on 29 November 2012 - 04:52 PM, said:

Trying to remember... what is it exactly that makes TAR so dangerous to visit in the flesh?

You lose your "humanity" whatever that is. We have conformation, though, based on Perrin smelling Slayer, and smelling a distinct lack of human-ness.

[wolverine]

awesome possum, on 29 November 2012 - 09:41 AM, said:

continued from the previous thread.


I finished A Crown of Swords last night (well, not completely, I still have some of the last chapter and epilogue to go) and it was much much better than I remember.  The way that LoC seemed disappointing and dragged, this one felt the complete opposite (and I finished it in a week as opposed the month LoC took me). Okay, the Egwene parts really dragged.  She has quickly become my least favorite character upon reread, not because of her character but because her chapters are so boring.  I'm sure Elayne and Faile will rise to compete with her in the next few books, but as of right now I groan inwardly whenever I see it's a chapter about her. Partially because I know she's going to be in pretty much the same spot for the next several books.

Damn.  You beat me to it yourself.  I have never re-read any of the books, but after waiting for books to come out, and then have them consist of Perrin and Faile whining for large portions of the books, I hated them both.  I would literally keep looking ahead praying we were done with Faile and Perrin chapters.

[The_Reaver]

Tor will be releasing some thing from book everyday, unti the book release. It could be anything a word, line, name of place, chapter name. they are calling it memories. Yesterday's memory was 'give his bond to me.'

[awesome possum]

Oh what the what?  The ebook version isn't going to be released until April?

Well played, Tor.  You know your audience is made up of geeks who know their way around the internet and might have been able to get around that whole "buy a copy" thing.  Well freaking played .

[David Selig]

awesome possum, on 30 November 2012 - 09:09 AM, said:

Oh what the what?  The ebook version isn't going to be released until April?

Well played, Tor.  You know your audience is made up of geeks who know their way around the internet and might have been able to get around that whole "buy a copy" thing.  Well freaking played .

Not Tor's fault. RJ's widow, Harriet, insisted on the delayed release of the ebook.

[Rhom]

Frankly, I'm surprised that it doesn't happen more often.  Sales numbers being what they are these days and the brick and mortars needing publishing companies to throw them a bone here and there.

[WrathOfTinyKittens]

Yeah not a bad idea TBH.

Chapter 1 is available free on tor.com if everyone didn't already know.

[Which Tyler]

I have to say, I thought it was pretty much standard practice to release hard cover first, then the ebook, after 4-6 months, and the paperback after 9-12.

It makes sense, you want people to buy your more profitable format, pretty much the only thing going for that format, is that it's released earlier.

Let's face it, who'd spend the 300% price increase for the hardback, if it's released at the same time as the paperback or ebook? especially if you came into the (very long) series part-way through, and inevitably have (at least some of) the previous books in paperback format

[WrathOfTinyKittens]

I probably wouldn't wait 4 months. I'd say a month or two is enough time - especially with a book like this that is guaranteed high sales - before releasing the ebook. Enough time for the fans to buy the hardcovers but not so long that you punish any other readers.

[Which Tyler]

But... they WANT people to become impatient, and pay a 300% increase

[David Selig]

Which Tyler, on 30 November 2012 - 01:31 PM, said:

I have to say, I thought it was pretty much standard practice to release hard cover first, then the ebook, after 4-6 months, and the paperback after 9-12.

It makes sense, you want people to buy your more profitable format, pretty much the only thing going for that format, is that it's released earlier.

Most publishers release the hardcover and the ebook simultaneously at a price that gets them about the same amount of money per unit. So there's no reason for a delay of the ebook.

[Werthead]

Impressive sales clarification right from the horse's mouth (Tom Doherty): the oft-mentioned 44 million sales figure for WoT is for the US and Canada alone. Based on the traditional ratio of North American to worldwide sales, that means that total worldwide sales could be in the region of 80-90 million.

Wowsers.

[Frey Pie]

Tylin and Mats relationship is a weird one. Ill be honest i never saw it as rape until people said it here. Mat does care about her, he mourns for her when he hears what the Gholem did

In any case im currently on Knife of Dreams and really enjoying it. Not getting the time to read i wish i had, but some good parts.

Charlz Guybon is an interesting secondary character. Rand at the manor was great, and Loails story is one im very much looking forward to reading more on, We also get the reveal of Thoms mysterious letter from a dead woman. I dont like Egwene but i like her style in the Tower. Its her monologues when she gives out about Nynaeve and others that turn me against her

[Cuellar]

Yeah the ebook delay is pretty much bullshit.  I'm going to wait to get the hardcover off the bargain rack.  Otherwise I'll just rent the ebook from my library so I don't give them a dime for this.

I've read book 1-10 several times, and you guys are right that Egwene and Perrin parts are mindnumbingly boring.  Even Rand sucks after book 8, but at least he actually does something occasionally.