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Daenerys and the red door


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#1 thespoon

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 11:08 AM

I have been thinking about Daenerys and her frequent references to the red door of the house in Braavos. Dany thinks of the red door many times throughout the books. It is a sweet memory of stability and happiness, something she obviously longs for. Perhaps it is to show her reluctance to be a Queen and that she really just wants a simple life. It seems clear that the red door is her strongest connection to "home," but I am wondering if there is any foreshadowing that we can gleam from it.

In speculating at Dany’s future, we are obviously guessing at whether she will sit the Iron Throne in King’s Landing. While I think this unlikely for several reasons, I think it is significant that we are told multiple times that the doors in the Red Keep and King’s Landing are bronze:
  • “Eddard Stark rode through the towering bronze doors of the Red Keep.” GoT
  • “Across the city on the hill of Rhaenys stood the blackened walls of the Dragonpit, its huge dome collapsing into ruin, its bronze doors closed now for a century." GoT
  • “Not until the pages had closed the great oak-and-bronze doors behind him did Sansa hear sounds again.” GoT
  • “Courtiers filled the gallery while supplicants clustered near the towering oak-and-bronze doors.” GoT
  • “The long hall went on and on and on, with endless doors to her left and only torches to her right. She ran past more doors than she could count, closed doors and open ones, doors of wood and doors of iron, carved doors and plain ones, doors with pulls and doors with locks and doors with knockers. Drogon lashed against her back, urging her on, and Dany ran until she could run no more. Finally a great pair of bronze doors appeared to her left, grander than the rest. They swung open as she neared, and she had to stop and look. Beyond loomed a cavernous stone hall, the largest she had ever seen. The skulls of dead dragons looked down from its walls.” CoK
I find this part of her time in the House of the Undying Ones to be very interesting. This extremely long hall with endless doors sounds a lot like Dany’s journey in Essos with endless distractions from Westeros. Finally, she reaches a door that gives a view of the Red Keep and she "had to stop and look," but this is not the door she is suppose to enter.

So, if bronze doors are not for her, where are the red doors other than the house in Braavos? In searching through the books, of all the descriptions of doors, there are only two doors that I found that could be described as red.
We get a description of the doors to Riverrun as being made of redwood, which could be viewed as red, but I don't think Riverrun makes much sense. So where else is described to have red doors? Where else could be home?
  • “The doors to the Great Hall were set in the mouth of a stone dragon. He told the servants to leave him outside. It would be better to enter alone; he must not appear feeble. Leaning heavily on his cane, Cressen climbed the last few steps and hobbled beneath the gateway teeth. A pair of guardsmen opened the heavy red doors before him, unleashing a sudden blast of noise and light.” CoK
Is this foreshadowing her future "home?" Is it symbolic of Dany not really having a home? Is it just a literary device that doesn't, at least yet, have much significance?

From Dany’s constant longing for “home” and the frequent imagery of “the red door,” I think we are given contextual clues that Dany’s final destination is Dragonstone. I think she is going to make an appearance at King's Landing, but just like the door in the House of the Undying Ones, it will not be the right path for her. She will find her home at her birthplace, with heavy red doors.

#2 Lady Sansa Stark

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 11:28 AM

I always wanted her to go back to the House with the red door, since I don't want her anywhere near Westeros and CERTAINLY not near the Iron Throne. But I hadn't thought about this though.. Dragonstone was always the home of the crownprinces of the Targaryen dynasty, right? Since it's her birthing place as well.. I wouldn't mind her going to Dragonstone then.

Nice catch. Some people think that the red door could as well refer to the Red Keep and use it as a clue that she'll sit the Iron Throne, since well.. It's supposed to be red.  But now that those doors are bronze and Dragonstone's doors are red.. Well. Why the heck not? I'd like to see that.

#3 Little Wing

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 11:49 AM

I guess it's about what lies behind that door - some repressed memory?
I've always wondered about the connection between the red door and Quaithe's red mask - it's also like a door, hiding the face behind... I think that the red door represents an event where she will in a sense peer through a "door" (think doors of perception) to find out some important truth (maybe about Jon?) When Dany asks Quaithe why she should go to Asshai, Quaithe says "For truth" (paraphrasing).

#4 Kanon

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 12:03 PM

She also named Drogons nest "Dragonstone" in her last chapter of ADWD, imo this is a possible foreshadow that she will stay there since its the only part of westeros she actually cares about

#5 Where Went Whent

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 12:08 PM

Dany has gone through alot to content herself at Dragonstone, but I do believe she would appear at King's Landing if only for a moment

#6 Fire Eater

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 04:08 PM

I think the red door symbolizes that Dany, deep inside, wants her childhood back, as the only stable life she knew was in Braavos at the house with the red door.

Edited by Fire Eater, 30 November 2012 - 03:25 PM.


#7 Draxus

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 04:22 PM

Have Arya or Samwell come across the door in Braavos, by any chance?

#8 red fork

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 04:23 PM

I hate to get all freudian, but it does have sexual overtones too.

#9 thespoon

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 04:37 PM

View PostKanon, on 29 November 2012 - 12:03 PM, said:

She also named Drogons nest "Dragonstone" in her last chapter of ADWD, imo this is a possible foreshadow that she will stay there since its the only part of westeros she actually cares about

Good point. I got so focused on looking to references for "doors" and "red" I forgot about this:

"Dany had taken to calling it Dragonstone, after the ancient citadel where she’d been born. She had no memories of that Dragonstone, but she would not soon forget this one... He had dwelt there for some time, Dany had realized when she first saw the hill. The air smelled of ash, every rock and tree in sight was scorched and blackened, the ground strewn with burned and broken bones, yet it had been home to him. Dany knew the lure of home... And no matter how far the dragon flew each day, come nightfall some instinct drew him home to Dragonstone. His home, not mine."

Ack! That seems to punch a hole in my theory. But wait, Dany said "that Dragonstone." I think that draws a sufficient distinction for my theory to survive. Drogon's Dragonstone is not her home, but the real Dragonstone still might be.

Edited by thespoon, 29 November 2012 - 04:55 PM.


#10 Buckwheat

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 04:48 PM

View PostFire Eater, on 29 November 2012 - 04:08 PM, said:

I think the red door symbolizes that Dany, deep inside, wants her childhood back as the only stable life she knew was in Braavos at the house with the red door.
I think so too. I never thought that there could be any foreshadowing in there too, but good noticing, OP.

View Postred fork, on 29 November 2012 - 04:23 PM, said:

I hate to get all freudian, but it does have sexual overtones too.
Elaborate please?

#11 Florina Stark

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 05:01 PM

View PostFire Eater, on 29 November 2012 - 04:08 PM, said:

I think the red door symbolizes that Dany, deep inside, wants her childhood back as the only stable life she knew was in Braavos at the house with the red door.
Yeah. The red door symbolizes that she always longed for a home and had one once but it was taken away. She wants that again.

View Postred fork, on 29 November 2012 - 04:23 PM, said:

I hate to get all freudian, but it does have sexual overtones too.
Ummmm wut?

#12 red fork

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 05:01 PM

View PostBuckwheat, on 29 November 2012 - 04:48 PM, said:

Elaborate please?

Yikes I'd rather not. Erm... use your imagination...

#13 Buckwheat

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 05:08 PM

View Postred fork, on 29 November 2012 - 05:01 PM, said:

Yikes I'd rather not. Erm... use your imagination...
Now that you have hinted at it and both me and Florina expressed that we do not know what the comment was about, you need to. Believe me, my imagination is quite inventive, but still I do not know what you meant by it.

#14 Little Wing

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 05:09 PM

View Postred fork, on 29 November 2012 - 05:01 PM, said:

Yikes I'd rather not. Erm... use your imagination...

Ummm... were you thinking of it being a symbol of losing virginity/loss of innocence? :dunno:
:leaving:

ETA:

Quote

Now that you have hinted at it and both me and Florina expressed that we do not know what the comment was about, you need to. Believe me, my imagination is quite inventive, but still I do not know what you meant by it.

Buck, why u so scary? :laugh:

Edited by Little Wing, 29 November 2012 - 05:11 PM.


#15 Buckwheat

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 05:12 PM

View PostLittle Wing, on 29 November 2012 - 05:09 PM, said:

Ummm... were you thinking of it being a symbol of losing virginity/loss of innocence? :dunno:
:leaving:
How would that connect to the house in Braavos? It was made clear in the books that Dany lost her innocence with Drogo on their wedding night, and as far as I can remember, that event is never connected to the red door.

#16 Little Wing

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 05:14 PM

View PostBuckwheat, on 29 November 2012 - 05:12 PM, said:

How would that connect to the house in Braavos? It was made clear in the books that Dany lost her innocence with Drogo on their wedding night, and as far as I can remember, that event is never connected to the red door.

Dunno, wasn't my idea, was just suggesting an interpretation of red fork's ... um, Freudian symbolism?

#17 Buckwheat

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 05:24 PM

View PostLittle Wing, on 29 November 2012 - 05:14 PM, said:

Dunno, wasn't my idea, was just suggesting an interpretation of red fork's ... um, Freudian symbolism?
I understood. :)

*waits for red fork to explain*

#18 red fork

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 05:30 PM

View PostBuckwheat, on 29 November 2012 - 05:24 PM, said:

I understood. :)

*waits for red fork to explain*

U waits in vain :) - too heavy for this forum I think!

#19 OGtargaryen

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 05:31 PM

View PostLittle Wing, on 29 November 2012 - 11:49 AM, said:

I guess it's about what lies behind that door - some repressed memory?
I've always wondered about the connection between the red door and Quaithe's red mask - it's also like a door, hiding the face behind... I think that the red door represents an event where she will in a sense peer through a "door" (think doors of perception) to find out some important truth (maybe about Jon?) When Dany asks Quaithe why she should go to Asshai, Quaithe says "For truth" (paraphrasing).

just a quick question, and correct me if I am wrong but didn't GRRM say he does not have time to send Dany to Assai now?

#20 Little Wing

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 05:34 PM

View PostOGtargaryen, on 29 November 2012 - 05:31 PM, said:

just a quick question, and correct me if I am wrong but didn't GRRM say he does not have time to send Dany to Assai now?

Yeah, but Quaithe told Dany to go to Asshai, that's what I'm referring to, not that she'll necessarily go... Why would GRRM have Quaithe say that to Dany, but not have her go, now there's a question...
ETA: The scene in question is when Quaithe visits her in the pyramid, so you can check it out yourself.

Edited by Little Wing, 29 November 2012 - 05:35 PM.