832 replies to this topic

[Kobayashi Maru]

Saint Arya, on 12 December 2012 - 10:27 AM, said:

Well that is probably the most controversial thing I've  said on here, enjoy! And Stannis army I was NOT calling Stannis God

You'll never prove you didn't,they will make it as if you were quoting GRRM and/or Pope who declared Stannis one and only...Just don't give them material,they are like pit bulls,when they smell blood...

[E-Ro]

This thread refuses to die. I don't have time now but when I do I will respond to all this hate, and set some things straight. Be prepared people.

[Saint Arya]

E-Ro, on 12 December 2012 - 11:22 AM, said:

This thread refuses to die. I don't have time now but when I do I will respond to all this hate, and set some things straight. Be prepared people.

I don't hate Stannis. I respect his claim, I just don't love him. Apparently I'm not alone in this...

[K.C.]

I've said many times that I think Stannis is an interesting character (mostly post-ADwD). It's the irrational Stannis love that makes me want to hate him.

[Nuncle Shagwell]

... and drinks he offers taste queerly, don't they?

Edited by Nuncle Shagwell, 12 December 2012 - 12:25 PM.

[E-Ro]

Saint Arya, on 12 December 2012 - 10:27 AM, said:

I agree with Bucky completely. But there are some actions of his that anger me, mostly his behavior in the prologue of ACoK and Davos' first chapter cement my negative opinion. And  this may sound weird, but he reminds me of Old Testament God. His warped morality and fire and brimstone mentality are similar to the way God treats the Israelites. Or see Job, he lost everything and was still faithful to God (kinda like Davos to Stannis) but as God cures Job's afflictions and gives him 10 more children, he doesn't acknowledge the pain of the loss of the  first 10 or how it'll truly never be fair. He expects it to just be ok because he declares it ok. That's why when folks on here preach Stannis as lawful neutral I disagree. Stannis has his own morals and ideas of fairness that are not the same as normal men, as OT God's morals in no way could be called fair. Also his relationship with Davos is not a friendship. It has always had a unbalance of power in the relationship and reminds me more of a manager training a trustworthy underling..

Interesting. I could not disagree more, but interesting nontheless. First of all stannis is "good" the only bad thing he has ever done is burn criminals, compared to everyone else vying for the throne he is a freaking saint. Stannis started of loyal to his elder brother giving his all in the rebellion fighting for robert and the rebel cause. He bled to put robert on that chair, saw good men die and almost died himself. It is no suprise that a family trying to steal his families property would drive him to extremes, its the game of thrones there is no middle ground, you win or you die. Its simple as that. Stannises brother renly instead of giving his brother his due dillegence like stannis did for robert tries to kill him and take the throne for himself. Its war and stannis has him killed. I will never understand why people get angry at this, renly had to be stopped. So stann gets his men and marches on kl and against all the odds he loses due to a miraculous sereis of plot devices, its then that he realises, that instead of just senselessly  fighting for the throne like everyone else he should try to help the realm. He does this by saving the nw from wildlings, and saving the north from greyjoys, boltons, and freys. Families that are universally despised and considered by everyone as "bad" On top of all this he must face the others. Stannis has alot on his plate, an impressive list of achievments, and the right, the right to the throne stolen from him. He fights to get it back and to unify westeros so it is strong enough to resist the others. He fights to feed the smallfolk who will surely starve without his aid from the iron bank. The next time you criticise  stannis think about what he has done, really think about it. Is burning some guys who broke the law really so horrible compared to others fighting to get the throne? It really is not, besides without him westeros is screwed big time.

[E-Ro]

Killer Cacti, on 12 December 2012 - 12:00 PM, said:

I've said many times that I think Stannis is an interesting character (mostly post-ADwD). It's the irrational Stannis love that makes me want to hate him.

Its irrational stannis hate that makes me defend him so.

Nuncle Shagwell, on 12 December 2012 - 12:23 PM, said:

... and drinks he offers taste queerly, don't they?

That was a joke, one of the many funny stannis lines.

[Saint Arya]

E-Ro, on 12 December 2012 - 05:13 PM, said:

Interesting. I could not disagree more, but interesting nontheless. First of all stannis is "good" the only bad thing he has ever done is burn criminals, compared to everyone else vying for the throne he is a freaking saint. Stannis started of loyal to his elder brother giving his all in the rebellion fighting for robert and the rebel cause. He bled to put robert on that chair, saw good men die and almost died himself. It is no suprise that a family trying to steal his families property would drive him to extremes, its the game of thrones there is no middle ground, you win or you die. Its simple as that. Stannises brother renly instead of giving his brother his due dillegence like stannis did for robert tries to kill him and take the throne for himself. Its war and stannis has him killed. I will never understand why people get angry at this, renly had to be stopped. So stann gets his men and marches on kl and against all the odds he loses due to a miraculous sereis of plot devices, its then that he realises, that instead of just senselessly  fighting for the throne like everyone else he should try to help the realm. He does this by saving the nw from wildlings, and saving the north from greyjoys, boltons, and freys. Families that are universally despised and considered by everyone as "bad" On top of all this he must face the others. Stannis has alot on his plate, an impressive list of achievments, and the right, the right to the throne stolen from him. He fights to get it back and to unify westeros so it is strong enough to resist the others. He fights to feed the smallfolk who will surely starve without his aid from the iron bank. The next time you criticise  stannis think about what he has done, really think about it. Is burning some guys who broke the law really so horrible compared to others fighting to get the throne? It really is not, besides without him westeros is screwed big time.

Saying he's not as bad comparatively isn't a good argument with the kind of things that go on in Westeros. It doesn't make him good or fair, just better than what's offered (and we're offered terrible choices). It's not even the burnings really. He kills criminals in a way that inspires fear. I don't think he gets off on it so eh. But I meant something more along the lines as he completely lacks empathy. He sees the world in one way and refuses to even try to look through another mans perspective. That's what I meant regarding the OT God comparison. It's whatever he thinks is 'right or fair', and I don't think that he can really be those things while lacking compassion.. And I acknowledge he has the rightful claim and am not upset that he used Melisandre to do it. That's warfare as you say. Also I acknowledge he's done good things for the small folk, but that doesn't mean he's a good or fair person.

[E-Ro]

Saint Arya, on 12 December 2012 - 05:36 PM, said:

Saying he's not as bad comparatively isn't a good argument with the kind of things that go on in Westeros. It doesn't make him good or fair, just better than what's offered (and we're offered terrible choices).

Good point. But right now westeros does not need good or fair, they need food and shelter. Safety and security. Stannis will give them that. I think you make very good points and the comparison is something I have never seen before(and i have seen every stannis insult possible so thats saying something) as well it was fascinating and I enjoyed it, even if I dont agree with it.

[Nuncle Shagwell]

E-Ro, on 12 December 2012 - 05:15 PM, said:

That was a joke, one of the many funny stannis lines.

Thanks, Captain Obvious

[E-Ro]

Nuncle Shagwell, on 12 December 2012 - 05:58 PM, said:

Thanks, Captain Obvious

No problem ser shagwell!

[Saint Arya]

E-Ro, on 12 December 2012 - 05:44 PM, said:

Good point. But right now westeros does not need good or fair, they need food and shelter. Safety and security. Stannis will give them that. I think you make very good points and the comparison is something I have never seen before(and i have seen every stannis insult possible so thats saying something) as well it was fascinating and I enjoyed it, even if I dont agree with it.

glad we can argue amicably

[Stubby]

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