Dany and Vaes Dothrak

[WakeTheDragon]

http://awoiaf.wester...index.php/Jhaqo

Ah thanks I mustn't have caught that.

[The Great Cornholio!]

Kill her.

[Sheogorath]

I think she dreamed about the end of DWD in GOT

""Yet when she slept that night, she dreamt a dragon dream again. Viserys was not in it this time. There was only her and the dragon. Its scales were black as night, wet and slick with blood. Her blood, Dany sensed. Its eyes were pools of molten magma, and when it opened its mouth, the flame came roaring out in a hot jet. She could hear it singing to her. She opened her arms to the fire, embraced it, let it swallow her whole, let itcleanse her and temper her and scour her clean. She could feel her flesh sear and blacken and slough away, could feel her blood boil and turn to steam, and yet there was no pain. She felt strong and new and fierce."

[Kyoti]

I read in interview recently where GRRM was discussing the changes in the the show vs the book and he said that Mago would have a major role to play in an upcoming book and that the show was going to have a hard time reconciling their decision to kill him in season 1. Having read that I would say that she fulfills her promise to burn Jhaqo but spare Mago and use him as her emissary to unite the Khalasars.

[darksellsword]

Grrm could of written the Dothraki race as an entirely nomadic people and it would of been plausible but he didnt he gave them a capital for some purpose

and for that reason i want to see it through a Pov charecter hopefully Dany will go there and unite all of the khalasars. I also hope he doesnt skimp on the detail of whatever wonders the Dothraki have dragged back to their Capital and their reaction to Dany and Drogon.

[winteriscome]

Aren't people forgetting that Drogon more or less does whatever he wants ... it'll be a problem for Dany to control him and get him to go where she wants him to go

[aryagonnakill]

Grrm could of written the Dothraki race as an entirely nomadic people and it would of been plausible but he didnt he gave them a capital for some purpose

and for that reason i want to see it through a Pov charecter hopefully Dany will go there and unite all of the khalasars. I also hope he doesnt skimp on the detail of whatever wonders the Dothraki have dragged back to their Capital and their reaction to Dany and Drogon.

Your talking like we haven't seen it through a POV already, especially since we specifically had all the "wonders" listed off for us. Dany in AGOT, thats where the guy tries to kill her with poisoned wine.

[darksellsword]

I know Vaes Dothrak has been in a pov before but i felt it wasnt explained enough for my liking. I mean i wish he had

of described the interactions between the khalasars and the khals in greater detail , For instance when Dany goes there with Drogon

how will they choose her as leader. its normal practise from what i remember for a khal to be the fiercest warrior and be open to a challenge

from any other warriior. will her previous status as Khaleesi be enough for her to assume that role with all of the Dothraki. Drogos Khalasar

heard the prophecy of his son being the "the stallion that mounts the world" will they see Drogon as being Drogo and Danys son . He was

born when Dany entered Drogos funeral pyer. If Drogon is used in this instance would that make him the Khal? That would be interesting if it

was the case . I suspect Drogon will be a black dread in the tradition of Aegon the conquerors dragon Balerion.

[Lion of Judah]

If Jhaqo can take Dany I don't think it would be a wise move, that's asking for trouble. If Drogon doesn't roast him on the spot he will certainly follow Dany to Vaes Dothrak, once that dragon sees everything isn't kosher he is going to burn everything and everyone. And the right person won't get blamed for the destruction and death, it will fall on Dany as usual.

[Black Wolf Smith]

I know Vaes Dothrak has been in a pov before but i felt it wasnt explained enough for my liking. I mean i wish he had

of described the interactions between the khalasars and the khals in greater detail ,.

Totally agree, why say that it must be able to hold all of the khalasars, if there isn't a reason. I know that the StMW, but there must have been something older, more well known for them to do such a thing. Also having the widows gather there as well means they had some reason in their lore, that told them they must do this.

If Jhaqo can take Dany I don't think it would be a wise move, that's asking for trouble. If Drogon doesn't roast him on the spot he will certainly follow Dany to Vaes Dothrak, once that dragon sees everything isn't kosher he is going to burn everything and everyone. And the right person won't get blamed for the destruction and death, it will fall on Dany as usual.

My OP that started this thread was that she would go willingly with him. Not that he would force her. She just heard the words go east to head west, right before being found. I think she will go to set things right with the Dothraki.

[Lion of Judah]

Totally agree, why say that it must be able to hold all of the khalasars, if there isn't a reason. I know that the StMW, but there must have been something older, more well known for them to do such a thing. Also having the widows gather there as well means they had some reason in their lore, that told them they must do this.

My OP that started this thread was that she would go willingly with him. Not that he would force her. She just heard the words go east to head west, right before being found. I think she will go to set things right with the Dothraki.

I like the thought, but I think some chaos will ensue because as a widow she is not allowed to leave.

[Black Wolf Smith]

I like the thought, but I think some chaos will ensue because as a widow she is not allowed to leave.

Well IMO either she will make peace with them, or she will die. I no longer think she will ever get to Westeros. That doesn't mean she won't try. To her what was said, means everything. She will do what was she told to do, I dont think it will work out for her...but....

[Lion of Judah]

Well IMO either she will make peace with them, or she will die. I no longer think she will ever get to Westeros. That doesn't mean she won't try. To her what was said, means everything. She will do what was she told to do, I dont think it will work out for her...but....

I don't think it's that simple as making peace with them, this is all assuming that these guys don't get engulfed by flames before a word is even spoken. Much of the Khalasar was Drogos, how many of those men see dragon and begin to question their loyalty?

ETA:I don't see why she can't kill him and take the Khalasar. It's not like she needs him for directions to head east.

[Fender]

I read in interview recently where GRRM was discussing the changes in the the show vs the book and he said that Mago would have a major role to play in an upcoming book and that the show was going to have a hard time reconciling their decision to kill him in season 1. Having read that I would say that she fulfills her promise to burn Jhaqo but spare Mago and use him as her emissary to unite the Khalasars.

I think that this guy has got it right. (That interview is fairly old, though. GRRM might have changed his mind since, whether because of the show or not. Although if he does use Mago, then hopefully that will be enough encouragement for the creators of the show to stop killing characters randomly and actually follow the source material.)

[darksellsword]

I really hope Grrm doesnt consider the tv show while hes finnishing the story if he wants to make Mago a major role he should do so. I can not understand why

the HBO writers are casually killing off charecters and Danys horse. I have a hunch that they dont expect the tv show to reach the point of using ADWD as source material. I think they are only focused on season 3 and 4 . I think Dany will start making a move from vaes dothrak to Meereen consolodating her forces moving to volantis were i think there is an army waiting to join her there moving up along essos ferrying her troops to dragon stone remember she can take months doing that and then from dragon stone to the wall .They will hear of Jons claim from the north were he has been joined by forces from the Vale controlled by Sansa. Jon will ask Daenerys for help in defeating the others. Daenerys will bring new Dragon glass weapons from Dragonstone. Thousands of Dothraki will die north of the wall because lets face it they dont look like the cold weather type. Oh and Jon will Marry Sansa who is his cousin not his sister.

[Uldra I]

Barristan's Coup d'Etat generally indicates that Mereen has a chance to form a working governemnt even in dire straits and without dragons as threat-in-being (everyone sees they're uncontrollable now). I think the scene is really set for Dany heading to Westeros after breaking the siege, leaving behind a working city (in contrast to earlier Astapor case).

To go north, you must journey south, to reach the west you must go east. To go forward you must go back and to touch the light you must pass beneath the shadow.

She's already gone south, and gone east, gone back to the Dothraki Sea, but has she gone east far enough? She still has to pass beneath the shadow, and the Shadowlands are further east in Essos. IIRC GRRM stated somewhere that we will not get to see Essos, but that doesn't mean that Dany can't go there behind the scenes. Drogon could take her there when she tries to fly him back to Mereen. If that happens, what becomes of her people and her dragons left behind in the city, and the Dothraki sea (assuming she unites the khalasars.) I'd like to see Essos, but oh well. IMHO she is AA and she might find Lightbringer there.

[JLE]

Dany isn't going to have any *ships* to take an army from Meereen.

What little there is of a Meereenese fleet is about to be wrecked by the Yunkai'i / Ghis invasion.

The Ironborn are about to trash the invading ships themselves in a surprise rear attack while the invaders concentrate on breaking the city. What isn't sunk will flee. And they themselves, by Victarion's own decision upon seeing the size of the Volantene fleet, are not staying long, they'll have to smash, grab and go.

The Ironborn ships themselves - are not suitable for taking any army of Dany's. They are designed so that their crew, sailors and rowers, are also their warriors. The Unsullied and Dothraki don't know how to row, and there won't be room for them or their horses. A fleet such as the ironborn's *might* just be able to take passengers such as Dany's army on the short hops across the Stepstones from Tyrosh (similar to the voyage made by Nymeria and her invaders long ago), but not on a massive long open sea voyage that will take months and require food supplies for all that time. If they try to take the Dothraki, the horses will panic or be slaughtered for food, and the Dothraki afoot in a Westerosi winter would be helpless. In any case the ironborn ships don't have the numbers to carry even Dany's Unsullied, let alone her Dothraki, and aren't even designed for the long sea voyages they've been making - it's taken all Victarion's naval skills to arrive with not even two thirds of his fleet, without him personally the remainder is helpless. They could conceivably take Dany without an army, but not take Dany *with* an army.

What Dany needs, for an invading land army, is a big fleet of huge, slow transport tubs with big holds, designed especially for passengers. The only navy of sufficient size arriving, that may be in any shape to take her army back, is the Volantene navy - and *they* will be slow, take months (sailing against storms, against the winds - note that Victarion, has overtaken them, and by a sufficiently wide distance to not be detected by them), and, in order to provide the space to carry an army of passengers (and horses), have to leave their entire invading army behind (whether because the army revolts, or dies, or defects.) In Meereen. A city which, thanks to the slavemasters' own destruction before Dany took the city, can barely feed itself even now, despite the best of Dany's efforts to remedy things. Also there is a chance that if Victarion does succeed in controlling a dragon, he may *fight* his way out through the Volantene navy, which will therefore be sunk or scattered, rather than evading them. (And while the slaves in the Volantene fleet might defect to Dany, there's no question that if Victarion meets them, the result will be carnage, one way or the other.)

Dany's going to arrive back in Meereen to find the harbour full of burning wrecks, no ships anywhere that are seaworthy for a long voyage to Westeros (and probably the harbour too ruined to even repair ships in until it itself is repaired - look how long it took to clear the bay of King's Landing from all the wrecks in the Blackwater Battle), not enough food to feed whatever army she takes there, probably half the defending Unsullied dead (even if they end up as the last men standing), and in any case if she has any Dothraki at all, they will still refuse to cross the sea (and even if they will, their horses won't) - Drogo was willing to dare, after the attempted assassination, but that was a special case and probably won't be repeated. If she's really unlucky, she won't even find both of her remaining dragons there. Victarion been, and either dead, or gone (and the Iron Fleet won't stay without him if he dies). He's hoping his dragon horn works: if it works then either Victarion or Euron will control a dragon who will therefore be heading to Westeros without Dany, and ahead of her - and Vic will not cooperate with Barristan if the two meet, they are old enemies from Balon Greyjoy's first rebellion and will come to blows, I suspect Barristan will die to further the story. Nobody will be glad to see her, the gates may even be shut against her by the Shavepate. And worst of all, an annoying little dwarf trying to boss her around, and that dwarf in league with someone who is at least twice a turncloak. And who on earth is this sinister scary black fire-worshipper in red robes, if he survives?

In any case Dany is ALREADY TOO LATE to be part of the action if she goes to Westeros by ship. The only way to arrive in time to take part in any worthwhile action is on dragonback, alone. I think she's not going to meet Victarion. Whether she's there to even meet Archmaester Marwyn is a big question - Marwyn is going to be latest of all actually getting into Meereen, but can't get in while a naval battle is going on, and even afterwards, will have to thread his way through the wreckage. He would wait there for her (unlike Victarion) if he gets there first, but if she gets back before he arrives, will she stay and wait for him, not even knowing that he's on the way? Or will Marwyn be too late and only meet Tyrion (with or without Brown Ben)?

Alternatively, if Dany abandons Meereen (and her two other dragons) (who will therefore have to come to Westeros with other riders), then where does she go? With a Dothraki army she would have to travel at the speed of a trotting horse, not even a galloping one because no horse can gallop all day. And she'd have to cross terrible country by the land route all the way to the Free Cities - to find that all the ships capable of taking an army are either gone east to Meereen with the invasion force, or west to Westeros with the Golden Company (and nearly half of *them* were lost en route), and there is no transport to be had. Again, that would take many months to travel, during which she would have to keep her army together and, most importantly, FED.

She's not coming back with an army. Period. If she even comes back by ship, it'll be alone, and captive to the ironborn. Or she'll be back on dragonback, at the speed of a flying dragon, and therefore with no army able to keep up.

She's not even going to be able to bring all three dragons back with her because she can only ride (and bond with) one. The other two dragons are going to need other riders. Whether they each have just one rider through the books, or end up with multiple successive riders as dragonriders live and die, who knows?

[Tetro]

Dany isn't going to have any *ships* to take an army from Meereen.

What little there is of a Meereenese fleet is about to be wrecked by the Yunkai'i / Ghis invasion.

[...]

She's not even going to be able to bring all three dragons back with her because she can only ride (and bond with) one. The other two dragons are going to need other riders. Whether they each have just one rider through the books, or end up with multiple successive riders as dragonriders live and die, who knows?

I agree with most of this, her options are very limited and I don't see many other way back to Westeros than on her own or at most with a very small group of people, but what do you think she'd be doing in Vaes Dothrak if not to unite the khalasars, and if she does, then what would she do with such an army ?.

[horizon]

She will set course to Westeros I assume, by land with all the horses, then get on the boats once at the coastline nearest Westeros.

Personally I prefer her and the three dragons (with or without riders) flying to Westeros leaving all and everything behind.

[Talking Hodor]

She's gone back far enough at the moment. She'll take her freshly won khalasar and mop up in Mereen. Then she'll probably use it and the survivors to travel to Asshai. She doesn't need all the Dothraki behind her, just a good number of cavalry - better than what she currently has.