152 replies to this topic

[nekrohsis]

So I'm rereading AGOT when I get to the scene where Dany marries Drogo, and the following question pops into my mind: Why did Illyrio give the dragon eggs to Dany if he knew about Aegon? Whether Aegon is fake or not, having the dragon eggs, a Targaryen symbol, in his possession would help bolster his claim. Dany doesn't need the eggs to support her claim. Everyone knows she's the real deal. If Illyrio just wants to give her a nice wedding present--and keep in mind just how expensive dragon eggs are--why doesn't he just give her one egg and keep the others for Aegon, who doesn't have any? It's an awful lot of money to spend, just to cheer up a sad girl on her wedding day, and Illyrio's known to be conspiring with Varys, so I assume he's put some thought into this gift.

So, main question: what does Illyrio gain from Dany having the eggs instead of Aegon?

[Real Heir of Bear Island]

Well Viserys was still aive at the time. So it was him after the throne, not Dany. I think Aegon was the back up plan in case Viserys didn't work out. That or Dany just got married first and he had no reason to gift anything to Aegon. They were just stone eggs anyway, he is a baller and wanted to get a nice gift so he did. Even Jorah japed that if Ilrio knew the eggs would hatch he'd have sat on them himself.

[V Targaryen]

I've had a couple of thoughts on this idea.  Firstly, going by what Varys tells Kevan, Aegon has undergone things that no king generally does.  He is taught many things and seemingly has been raised like a commoner.  Giving him a very expensive dragon egg is something that might take away from that experience.  If that makes any sense!

Secondly, a young man carrying around a dragon's egg is going to draw attention to himself, something that I don't think they wanted at that time.

And third, I don't suppose they really expected the eggs to hatch!  They were just pretty presents, or at least that's the feeling I got.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

At the time, it were only expensive stones. And probably not the only ones in Illyrio's possession. Remember, during the last 70 or 80 years a rather large number (at least 20) of Targaryen eggs disappeared. We don't know when or how, but what if it was Varys during the Sack of Kings Landing?

[RoamingRonin]

I don't think Aegon having a dragon egg would help support his claim of being a Targaryen. It's not like the Stark children and their direwolves. We know there are other dragon eggs out there; they are rare but rich men and adventurers are rumored to have them. Euron Greyjoy had a dragon egg, for example. And not all dragon eggs are real. I think it would hurt Aegon's claim more if he pulled out a dragon egg as proof of his lineage. People would probably agree he's a Targaryen, just one of the mad, dragon-crazy ones.

[HeWhoKnocks]

I think there was no secret agenda in Illyrio's gift of the dragon eggs.  (1) Dragon eggs were very valuable so it would be a gift fit for a queen.  (2)  Dany was a Targaryen so dragon eggs would be a gift fit for someone of that family.  I believe Illyrio had no idea that they would hatch.  If he had thought they could have been hatched he would have given them to Faux Aegon.  But he thought he was only giving away an expensive bauble.

[jarl the climber]

Its actually a good question. Khal Dorogo was important to the plan. Giving her a second rate gift a the wedding would have been a bad move. Giving her the dragon eggs was a princely gift and it played up to her heritage. illryio also said that he was suprised that Dany survived so I'm not sure what he expected to happen to them if she had. Clearly he never expected them to hatch.

[Alex Baratheon]

I think the Dragon Eggs were nothing more than just gifts. Illyrio didn't have a secret agenda.

As he said, Dragon Eggs are very rare and extremely expensive, which would make them a very fitting gift to a Queen. Also, they're kind of symbolic, as House Targaryen's connection to the dragons. Giving eggs to Daenerys symbolizes Illyrio's hopes and dreams of a continuance of the Targaryen line, via Viserys and Danny.

I don't think he had any idea that they would hatch. He didn't know that the glass candles are burning in the Citadel. He didn't know about the return of the Others. Nor did he know that magic would return in such a way that would allows those stones to break apart and give birth to the only three dogs in the world.

[Harlaw's Book]

Maybe the eggs were schmuck bait for Viserys?  It seems kind of surprising that he wasn't obsessed with the eggs.

[Quentyn Baratheon]

They were not for Dany, but for Drogo. To buy the most powerful khal of those lord of horses, you need more than a pretty face.

[The Idiots Lantern]

Harlaw, on 04 December 2012 - 02:44 PM, said:

Maybe the eggs were schmuck bait for Viserys?  It seems kind of surprising that he wasn't obsessed with the eggs.

Quoth Dany: "He was not a real Dragon."

It's unlikely Illyrio thought too much about the eggs. He didn't give them to Aegon because what use would a strapping young prince have for what were basically just pretty stones, but the girl will like them, girls like pretty things. There's probably not much more to it then that.

I personally have a suspicion those three eggs are the same "last Targaryan eggs" from the Tragedy at Summerhall, but I can't prove it.

[GallowsKnight]

We hear that dragon eggs are worth vast fortunes or armies but the problem is it's impossible to convert them into cash, no one who has that lying around will trade it for an egg and anyone with an army will just take them from you. I suspect Illyrio didn't pay for them.

So they're useless. Pretty. But useless.

They are however useful in convincing Khal Drogo that Daenarys is the real deal. And in return Illyrio got wealth, horses and slaves for making the arrangements.

[ab aeterno]

It seems to me that there are three general possibilities:

He was truly intending to put Viserys on the throne;

or

He was using Dany and Viserys as a feint and a distraction while they prepared Aegon;

or

He was hedging his bets like a businessman.

[RedBean]

They were just expensive presents for Dany. He only gave them to her because he didn't know they were about to hatch.

[Golden Lion]

You're looking at the dragon eggs as important symbols that support her claim, they aren't. They were just stone eggs, a glorified ornament. If anyone had ever thought that those eggs could hatch then Dany would never have gotten them.

Illyrio was just giving her something to remind her that she's a Targ since she was marrying a Dothraki, it was just a kind gesture, no political manoeuvrings behind it unless you count sucking up to the Targ family.

Edited by King Lannister, 09 December 2012 - 08:44 AM.

[King.In.Yellow]

ab aeterno, on 09 December 2012 - 07:57 AM, said:

He was hedging his bets like a businessman.

Sort of like Goldman Sachs donating equal amounts to the Obama and Romney campaigns. If you're gonna play the game, it's best not to lose it.

[ab aeterno]

King.In.Yellow, on 09 December 2012 - 08:45 AM, said:

Sort of like Goldman Sachs donating equal amounts to the Obama and Romney campaigns. If you're gonna play the game, it's best not to lose it.

Yup. It's just covering your losses. Betting firms do it all the time: a customer makes a bet, let's say $1000 on a certain outcome, and the firm makes a $500 bet on the opposite outcome. It cushions the loss if you win and they still make a profit if you lose. Other businesses do it too.

[Stannis ftw]

King.In.Yellow, on 09 December 2012 - 08:45 AM, said:

Sort of like Goldman Sachs donating equal amounts to the Obama and Romney campaigns. If you're gonna play the game, it's best not to lose it.

So Illy was betting for
a) an unpredictable half-wit that anybody can see is not fit to rule.
b ) guy that was prepared (in part by Illy himself?) since early childhood to rule.

First try a), if all fails, try b ). Seems like solid plan to me. Why not go straight to plan b?

Edited by Stannis ftw, 09 December 2012 - 09:08 AM.

[sillent]

Doesn't really make sense to me to give 3 extremely extremely expensive presents to a "Queen" you don't really care for. Giving only one away, or saving them to give to Aegon when he finally invaded, or even giving them to Viserys (since he was the main targ at the time) all seem like better ideas.

Dragons eggs are worth a lot, I don't really see Illyrio gifting three of them away as a random fun wedding present. Even if he was 100% sure they would never hatch.

[ab aeterno]

Stannis ftw, on 09 December 2012 - 09:07 AM, said:

So Illy was betting for
a) an unpredictable half-wit that anybody can see is not fit to rule.
b ) guy that was prepared (in part by Illy himself?) since early childhood to rule.

First try a), if all fails, try b ). Seems like solid plan to me. Why not go straight to plan b?

Because in that scenario it would be betting on an army of Dothraki along with two Targaryens (Illyrio tried to keep Viserys with him,) just in case Aegon didn't work out. Otherwise, if Aegon fails he has nothing. You don't go straight to plan b because that would be putting all your eggs in one basket. Literally.

Edited by ab aeterno, 09 December 2012 - 09:13 AM.