During this reread I try and pretend I am a fly on the wall and from that perspective:
If I were Loras, I would feel both insulted and hurt by Tyrion's comments.
He begins very condescendingly ''How old are you, Ser Loras?'' and it goes downhill from there:
Why he would join Kingsguard?1) It's none of his business! 2) Margaery is to be a queen? He is her twin?!
Loras answers with Aemon the Dragonknight (love, honor, knightly ideal) and Jaime (your own brother joined and you ask me?).
Then Tyrion smiles 'mockingly' and starts teasing about lands, titles, marriage, children... Does Tyrion really not know about R+L? There he is thinking that Loras used to be as colorful as a rainbow and not taking a hint, lol.
But Loras could have seen a mocking smile and assumed that Tyrion knew and was twisting the knife. Especially since poor kid is really depressed.
When Tyrion asks of love Loras goes all poetical about how Renly is dead and he will never love again and Tyrion asks if that is from a song and says that Loras knows nothing of love but songs 'cause he is just a kid. LOL
When Loras tenses and asks 'Are you mocking me?' Tyrion says how he had a love, too. Which would be very sweet and all but he is talking to Loras
and we know what an ass Loras is. I bet he was disturbed that a dwarf could have that kind of feelings and that he doubts they were returned (especially because Tyrion often boasts about whoring, Alayaya has been whipped in public, rumors of Tysha are not so secret etc)
They are soo speaking past each other I can't believe!
And I bet that was like seventeenth time Loras heard that question just in that hour, there he is, standing guard and everybody that comes just has to make small talk and ''So, you joined the kingsguard? At seventeen? Is that the youngest ever? So, you can't marry now, all the pretty maidens are going to cry...''
Tyrion and Shae are at cross purposes throughout this meeting. We are told Tyrion's thoughts, but have to work out what Shae's are from what she says.
First she hears Tyrion say he is going to put her aside. She asks about the silks and jewels Tyrion gave her in ACoK and then took away again. She hears Tyrion say she will never get them back. Then she asks if she can stop maiding for Lollys and tries to persuade Tyrion to make her his mistress again. Tyrion refuses that as well, and she is clearly upset and angry, but feels unable to do more than be sullen (which might be a last attempt to soften him). Ultimately, and probably after some thought, she persuades him to "keep" her in return for continuing to be his whore, presumably still with some hope of ultimately wheedling a better deal out of him.
I am a fly on the wall and suddenly Shae seems a lot more reasonable. Tyrion NEVER tells her that if they are discovered she will be hanged.
And we hear that she tried to pick up her stuff and leave but that she didn't get her silks and jewels.
Speaking of cultural overtones, in Hindi the phrase naak catwana (to have one's nose cut off) means to have been deeply shamed in public. This is because cutting off the noses of traitors, whores, adultresses and unchaste women was a punishment back when we still had the feudal system.
And in Byzantine Empire there was a time when overthrown emperors would lose their nose and that would make them unfit to rule (Justinian II
came back with vengeance anyway and the custom was abandoned).
Is Tyrion symbolically disinherited?
There are other maimings done as a punishment for crimes. For certain crimes a person would lose a nose/ear/beard/hand/arm/both hands/eyes etc. But I don't think Martin was inspired by Bizantium. Perhaps other places?
Edited to add: English is my second language, please forgive the grammar and spelling.
Edited by Mirijam, 10 December 2012 - 08:45 PM.